Former acting chief justice of the OECS supreme court, Sir Brian Alleyne, is questioning whether acts performed between consenting adults in the privacy of their own home should be prosecuted by the state.
Alleyne was discussing the issue of buggery and homosexuality at a lecture on the relationship between faith and the legal system on Tuesday evening.
According to the former judge, the laws of Dominica condemn the abominable “crime of buggery committed either with mankind or any animal” but does not specifically define the crime.
“The section is very imprecise and could incorporate anal sex between a man and his wife as well as between two men, a man and a woman and under the definition which extends to bestiality, a man and an animal,” he pointed out.
He said he is led to believe that anal sex between a man and a woman is not uncommon in Dominica but this does not attract wide spread condemnation “although the statutory provision could be interpreted to include that act, I must say.”
He is suggesting that a distinction must be made in that case, as in others, between immorality and illegality. “I need not emphasis the fact that not all immoral acts are illegal and certainly not all attract criminal sanctions…” he pointed out.
Alleyne said immorality is a fact of life and although it should not be condoned by people of faith, he wonders whether matters done behind closed doors should be prosecuted by the state.
“My question is whether consensual immoral act of this nature performed in private, usually in privacy of a bedroom should be subjected to criminal sanctions…” he stated. “Should we prosecute a man and a woman who engage in anal sex, the abominable crime of buggery in the privacy of a bedroom, husband and wife perhaps.”
He continued, “By the same token, as immoral even unnatural as it is, should we prosecute the consensual act of two men in the privacy of the bedroom?” he asked. “To say no is not to validate the act, it is to respect the privacy of individuals while retaining the condemnation of this immoral act as we condemn all immoral acts.”
Alleyne stated that there is a problem in society where there is tolerance of other immoral acts, even those that affect the public interest, while at the same time condemning immoral acts “which harms no one except those who voluntarily engage in the acts.”
“Is that not a distortion of the basic intent of criminal law which in essence seeks to punish act which affects the public welfare or involuntary victims of the acts in contrast to wrongful acts which affects the private interest of individuals?” he asked.
Recently minority rights group, MiriDom, hinted that it intends to ask the government to take another look at the buggery laws in Dominica with a view to having them repealed.
However, Prime Minister, Roosevelt Skerrit has said that the buggery laws on the books in Dominica will not be repealed pointing out that he has not heard any ‘compelling’ argument to support such move.
He stated that the laws will remain in effect in the foreseeable future.
It is disappointing to read Mr. Alleyne’s comments, but I was not surprised.There are those in society who think that upholding immorality means being intelligent modern and up to date.
The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality,in fact this is the only sin for which Jehovah destroyed two
cities.
Homosexuality is wrong regardless of where the act is committed. The same applies to rape, incest,theft,illegal drug use,child abuse and the like.
If this abomination is made legal, it gives the sodomite the legal right to approach any man or woman above 16 inviting them commit sodomy. Lets think of our children and our own individual rights.I think this will give rise to violence.
Here are some reasons why homosexuality is wrong:
1. This is not sex as Jehovah intended.
2. The wrong body parts are used in this gruesome act.
3. Jehovah intended for sex to be between a man and a woman.
4. One cannot procreate through this act.(by the way, they will ask for right to adopt children too wee).Isn’t our population small enough?
5. The act is unnatural and immoral,read (Romans 1:24-28,32.
6.This lifestyle promotes and encourages the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.
7.This act is unhygienic.
8.Embracing this lifestyle means that humans have stooped lower than beast.Read (Romans 1:26,27)again.
9.If you really believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob;if you believe the Holy Bible then you would hate what Jehovah hates. To be clear, let me say that God hates the sin not the sinner.God is not even condemning the homosexual, it is his act (sin)that condemns him. Read (John 3:17-21.
10. You can’t give Jehovah God thanks for this lifestyle.
THANK GOD there is hope for homosexuals who repent.Seek help (counselling),acknowledge your problem, confess it to God, ask His forgiveness and believe that He has forgiven you. Ask Jesus to save you and confess Him as Your risen saviour and Lord.His Holy Spirit will indwell you and empower you to live for JESUS. Remember JESUS LOVES YOU, yes YOU. (John 3: 16)
What consenting adults do in privacy is their business, I don’t see why time and money is being wasted on this, This money/time would be better spent on Child protection, and raising the age of consent to 18, to protect our children and vulnerable young people.
Isnt the law designed to condemn buggery and not homosexuality? Does that mean therefore that lesbianism is legal in Dominica? Aren’t homosexuals already free to do more than what is naturally designed by God? Our laws should continue to criminalize buggery. aren’t too many of our young boys spoilt before the age of sixteen?????
Thank you kind Sir you are the only member of the profession willing to take the heat and to discuss legal issues of the day. You will go down in history as someone to be admired – someone who will not be silenced. Thank you.
Those who are interpreting Mr. Alleyne’s oration to condone their ideology, or objecting because of the immoral acts that you choose to engage in. Buggery is anal intercourse, which is the penetration of a penis into an anus. It could between man and man, man and woman or man and animal. It is a penis penetrating an anus. Comprende!
As is generally understood, laws usually have a moral basis or at least started off like this. Now we speak of ‘rights’, many of which have little to do with moral principles and are more an expression of liberty ‘to do’.
But we see that what is considered just and thus declared a ‘right’ is determined by organizations which dictate what are ‘rights’ and hence, good and bad. They are now molding the ‘conscience’ as the line between wrong and right is thinned by the moderator ‘does a right exist’?. In the same way, a right is freely taken away as the government, the EU or similar organization decides.
While the original role of guiding the conscience was that of ‘the Church’, we see now that ‘the church’ too is leader in the protection of rights. In the buggery debate, ‘the church’ is seemingly imprisoned by its fear of ‘discriminating’ and hence violating anyone’s rights… apparently confused whether breaching one’s privacy is worse than condemning buggery.
leave the law alone…we no repealing it. If they want to buggar, tell them to do it in private. \It is not our business.
This is the thing with Dominicans! They play Coy, They show off and flaunt their hypocrisy. LIFE HAPPENS. THINGS HAPPEN IN LIFE.
WE ARE ALL GROWN and when you were young, your parents didn’t teach you about sex. They taught you that you came floating down the souse or Pelicans and Malfini that fly by and drop you from land of babies. NOW Had you understand and learn about sex, I guess some of us younglings wouldn’t be born yet. HOWEVER. STOP HYPOCRISY!!!
Being ignorant of a world of hate and a world of sin is like being ignorant of a world of happiness. When one teaches their child about life and the many things in life, you are not only teaching your child about life itself, you’re showing them how much you care and love them and that you have to explain everything to them. HOW YOU GO ABOUT EXPLAINING TO THEM is your choice. BUT HIDING AND KEEPING SECRETS from people, especially children is the most dangerous of things. When they do find out, they’ll want to go on Adventures and experiment. But if they understand from an early age, they’ll know morally what you hold as right and wrong!
SO HOMOS FLAUNTING IN THE STREET SHOULDN’T Affect anyone, unless the homo come infront you and want to touch you up or your child THEN THE LAW SHOULD COME IN. WHO PEOPLE ARE SHOULDN’T Be opposed to society, Society in Dominica needs to learn to accept every human being for who they are and how they were made. Changing one self is like wearing a cloak every minute, every second, hiding your scars from the public because you feel and fear being ridiculed or being called a freak. HOW WOULD YOU PEOPLE LIKE BEING CALLED NAMES AND TREATED BAD EVERY DAY FOR WHO YOU ARE and knowing As much as you have tried, You CANNOT CHANGE WHO YOU ARE AND HOW YOU ACT, THE WAY YOU WALK, TALK AND BREATHE.
DOMINICANS NEED TO LOOSEN UP AND LIVE LIFE and STOP MINDING PEOPLE BUSINESS AND THEN PEOPLE CAN LIVE FREELY!
Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. Society in Dominica has accepted everyone. What they will not accept and have every right not to is two men and two women having a sexual relationship. You should know that it is abnormal. If they wish to practice it in the privacy of their home, so be it. What the eye does not see does not hurt the heart. However, when they want to take it into the public arena, this is where Dominicans have all rights and reasons to oppose them. Let them keep their business to themselves and behind closed doors where it belongs away from the public eye. Do you comprehend that?
If a man uses cocaine or sells it within his private residence ……would that be wrong or right Mr Alleyne the suppositions are the same, are they not?
YOU SHOULD BE LABELED AN IDIOT… seriously?
You going to compare a substance that kills the human body slowly with an act done privately that does not affect the those who decides to partake in it? COME UP WITH ANOTHER EXAMPLE… WEAK!
Does embezzlement which is done in secret kill anyone’s body?
If the government steals from the treasury to take personal cruise does that kill the human body?
If your child curses and assault his or her parents at home does that kill the body?
When a 6 year old boy or girl is raped in the privacy of someone’s home does that kill the body?
When a young woman goes for a job interview in the privacy of an office and is sexually harassed does that kill the human body?
When a husband rapes a wife in the privacy of the bedroom does that kill the human body?
It’s not the same!! because the the seller is hurting the buyer, the buyer’s friends and family. How could it be the same??? Cocain destroys people directly and in-directly, whether it is sold on the streets or under the sheets.
It seems as if a big mistake is being made by talking about committing an act ‘in privacy’. For now buggery is illegal. It’s either we keep it so or change it. To put in the argument of doing it ‘in private’ is welcoming too many other issues and thoughts. So if people ‘do’ dogs and do drugs in private is it ok?
This argument about consensual sex male with male or female w.female engaged in the act,in the privacy of their own home should not be punished, is empty as clouds without water.
I have read the 36 comments on this subject and not one person could give an example where two men were brought before the court in their house and was charged or imprisoned for this crime.Not even Alleyne could.
I am not a lawyer, this is for the so-called smart ones to answer.If two men at midnight in their bedroom doing their thing,”how can they be arrested by the police?”
I believe this is a diabolic movement who want to changed fabric of society and imposed their life style on the rest of us.If, or when they get their way, they will asked for the same rights as heterosexual to be married.
They will also demand that they are accepted in society, by asking the government to pass laws that, any one who criticised their practice or calling it an abomination,even preachers can be prosecuted with HATE CRIME.Jesus once said
“That which is highly approved in the sight of men is an abomination in the sight of GOD”
The worse is yet to come,
I have told you before that religion can do strange things to your mind.Your analogy and augments are always written in jargon language and for your knowledge clouds do have water, in the form of vapor.One of the things you religious people seem to forget is facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Gary….you’re so gay….
The laws ain’t changing for you…and your fellow bullers….
The destruction of any society begins from the top.
What is at hand here is the social degradation that will prevail in a small island state like ours if the laws are removed.
Remember my people we are not huge in size far less for population, so these are among the reasons why we should presrve our traditions and customs.
For People who mentioned church and state should be seperated, this is an American ideology and should remain there.
If you build a society on religion beliefs and then all of a suden people are telling you that all the things that you once believed in are no longer true , without showing you no evidence from which it came, how are you to respond?
My people of faith we should keep the faith, do not waiver.
Mr.Alleyne this time you have it all wrong. No one is saying that two peope should be prosecuted for sleeping in private(because all now so it happening and no one is being arrested) But if now a boy come and tell the police that this man did an unnatural act to him, shouldn’t the police take actions?? Just as in any other sex offense, eh?
I think you all are twisting this issue too much.
The whole issue is the influence that people who favour same sex have on society. They are actively pursuading even Govt’s to change laws,and if those poor Gov’t donot follow, then all sorts of lies are told about that country just to put financial sanctions on it (SAD!!)
Ok, Some people say that , prostitution and unmarried sex is also a sin , and Yes this is so. But you do not see these people puting pressure on any one to follow their life style!!
Respect goes on both sides. If you think your private actions are correct and I think they are wrong well then lets us agree to disagree. Do not force my arm to see things your way.NO!
I know that you are getting pressure from your inner circles to change your beief but hold trong and keep the faith.
That is different
coming and say a man do an act to him is like coming and confess that he was raped or abused. unless he accepted.. find another example. WEAK!
I agree with you totally “massacre” because I see this from a standpoint of setting of limitations by which OUR society must live. That, I believe is the responsibility of our government but we the people must influence this and have a say. Why?? Because tomorrow we could have a government with persons who all feel that the law should be repealed and if we do not let them know that on this issue, we the people MUST decide, then it could be repealed by them, the 21 parl reps and the parliamentarians.
However, in Mr. Alleyne’s defence, he is someone who believes in the right of each individual to hold his own opinion and as such, tends to look at things from the standpoint of a lawyer reading and interpreting THE LAW. I believe that he is attempting to generate discussion from this standpoint so that we can debate this among us and come to a collective consensus on what should be the wording of this aspect of the law in order to avoid future unfair or unfortunate incidents where persons who are engaging in ‘consensual sex’ are not the victims of police victimization while in the privacy of their room. I think that Mr. Alleyne’s motive is to generate discussion rather than to push a particular viewpoint, regardless of whether or not he expresses his own views as part of that discussion. This is a very interesting topic which has many implications. My own view is that the laws should remain in order to act as a ‘limitation’ for actions accepted in our society. If we remove that LIMITATION, we will suffer a great deal from ‘Gay Tourism’. I say this because at present, gay persons can visit and enjoy Dominica and the company of our people as they abide by our laws and do not seek to impose their lifestyles on our people. However, repeal the laws and you will open up the floodgates for them to flock to Dominica where they will suddenly want to flaunt this behaviour in our faces to say ‘Yes, we are gay and proud and you can do nothing about it!!’ At that point, it will be a hell of a lot more difficult to turn that around and regain control of our society. Look how this government has apparently facilitated, encouraged, embraced and accepted the presence and increase of PROSTITUTION in our country. It is becoming more and more entrenched with citizens suffering and complaining about the consequences but they are not being listened to. So, imagine opening the FLOODGATES to the gay movement worldwide and encouraging GAY TOURISM. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, problematic!!!!!!
WELL most ppl d.a kno who’s gay and who’s not .i say letem be letem do whatever they want to in the privacy of their homes. letem come out some women out there with down low men. i say letem be free to come out but i also ask what do thy want really what other rights do they need other than human rights which apply to everyone.
I am very disappointed with Mr. Alleyne who is effectively supporting the agenda of the homosexuals and contradicting himself with all that over analysis of the law. The issue of buggery does not have to do with what a man and his WIFE (man and woman) does it has to do with an act committed by humans of the same sex. Is it where the act takes place that makes it right or wrong? For years many of these people have been practicing their homosexuality and who knew, who cares. All of a sudden they are all over in people faces trying to shove their agenda down our throats, they want rights, you must agree with them or you are homophobic. Why would anyone want rights for what is natural and legal?
You are mistaken with your identity of the word. The Collins English dictionary defines buggery as “anal intercourse between a man and another man, a woman, or an animal”
@wonders never cease your name is so fitting to me. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be, have you ever opened a dictionary?
Hear, hear Sir Brian! Very well put and articulated.
I write in full support of the legal argument presented by Sir Brian.
Judges/ Courts have wrestled over the years in defining indecency and immorality. They have incresaingly recognize that morals and taste were subjective, arbitrary and unworkable in the criminal context.
Bad taste,Violation of religious or moral standards or even public disgust aren’t by themselves enough to make something indecent or criminal( quote from a Judge decision)
A diverse society should be able to function with a generous measure of tolerance for minority morals and practices
There are laws in the books to deal with acts that are meant do to harm. Community standards or values will be very difficult to argue in a court of Law
You know what? right or wrong, law removed from the books or not. I am glad Dominicans are finally having the conversation on sex and sexuality. Dr. Carissa Etienne herself tried to bring this conversation to the fore and she was castigated for it by the same ignorant set of Dominicans who think that denying something will cause it to cease to exist.
I am glad you can see another learned son of the soil is able to take a topic like this apart in such a didactic fashion and deal with the points in a way that is accessible to everyone and presents facts without emotion. There is no need to criminalize what consenting adults do in private when it does not harm society. The long and short of it is; what os sauce for the good should bloody well be sauce for the gander as well. Live your life, and be accountable for your own soul and let others do the same.
Birds of the same flock nest together and play with each other.
Imagine if other IMMORAL things we do were made ILLEGAL
Lying to our parents – Minimum fine of $3,000 or 2 months in jail
Cheating on our spouse – Maximum fine of $15,000 or 12 months in jail
Stealing time from our employers – Life in prison without parole
Gossiping on our friends behind their backs – $500 fine and 20 hours community service
hahahahah
Excellent! Brian Alleyne has given an eloquent talk stating the facts.
the thing is that these people are making a valid point about doing their thing the privacy of their home which does not seem to harm anyone, but when they get what they want like striking out the laws, then now we will see old mass.
man and man and woman and woman walking in roseau flaunting their homosexuallity like its ok to expose our children to that immorallity.
Mr. Alleyne,
Can I grow my weed, dry it and smoke it in the privacy of my home, bed room, living room; not engaging in selling, distributing or any other act?
Rather can I use it o make tea for myself and consenting family members?
There is an agenda but Jah will deal with it!
Brilliant. So well expressed, Sir Alleyne. Your logic is undeniable. And as you say, decrminlization is also very much in accordance with the Catholic Church current preaching. Unfrtunately, the vast majority of Caribbean people are not in favour, so it will be a while before ANY Caribbean gov’t will change the unfair law. But it WILL happen in the future, as more and more persons accept logic and the FAIR application of law.
Dear ‘Dom citizen’, you are attempting to suggest here that he condones their activity. He does not actually. As a Catholic and a believer in God and the teachings of Christ and the bible, he does not accept or condone it in the least. All he is doing is shedding light on the impracticality of the law as it is written at present in order that it can be debated and changed if necessary so as to make it more practical and applicable to society. There is a massive difference between the two things….ACCEPTING AND CONDONING OR EXPLAINING AND DISCUSSING THE LAW AS IT STANDS IN ORDER TO MAKE IT WORK BETTER. Mr. Alleyne’s lecture needs to be printed in full in order that we can all understand better that which he represents.
Church and State is like oil and water. Who can correct sin but God!! The legality issue will not help or prevent the practice of that Homo trend that the world is on. The men who went to Lot’s house at night, to request that he give them the two angels who were visiting with him to have sex with, were all blinded by the Angels.
These are all spiritually blind demonic folks, who want and insist that we join them in their debauchery, will stop at nothing, knocking on all doors to open up to them. Politicians are buckling at the knees, men in high authority are crumbling beneath their relentless push for acceptance. Nothing will stop these homosexuals but the FIRE of God. We need to ignore them. Don’t give them any attention in the press and media. Let them grope in the dark where they belong. Un-natural brutes.
To Frabo
Why are you so misinformed and ignorant.Why are you so arrogant.You need to read and understand where the phrase ‘separation of state and Church” originated and in what context it was meant to be used,was there any war or animosity between church and state in the Bible regarding the kings,of course not, they all had their Priest and holy men.The Church and State have always coexisted with each other in the Governance of mankind.These two institutions do have their agendas but when it comes to governing mankind they coexist very well in an Occult manner.
When you mentioned the story of Lot in the Bible,there is no reference to sex or homosexuality.The mob never insisted in having sex with these two men or two angels,it said they wanted to know them.You got such a perverted mind, it is sickening.There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action especially when it takes on a religious belief.As to your quote “Let them grope in the dark where they belong. Un-natural brutes” here is something to think about,arrogance is a creature.It does not have senses.It has only a sharp tongue and the pointing finger.
Gary, ignorance is weighing heavy on your head and shoulders. “He wanted to KNOW them.” What does “know” means in the bible as it relates to woman and man, or husband and wife? you have much to learn, “Gary.” Before you call anyone ignorant, you must first examine the facts. The Men at Lot’s door were HOMOSEXUALS. Go read your bible, if you have one.
law or no law man i lost all respect for you shame on you for that statement. who vex lost
…and you call yourself truthman? way-papa!
This utterance from one of our most learned men makes our PM sound like a genius when he said that he has not heard any ‘compelling’ argument to support such move.
This is so weak and lame for an argument.
Come on man. The P.M. comes from an entireley different angle .No sane politician in the Caribbean would speak out in favour of homosexuality, even if they were practicing homosexuals themselves because it would cost them votes massively and would be political suicide.
Again my friend, the gentleman has simply explained the law as it stands in order to examine its practicality and to open discussion as to the necessary changes as the people see it. In other words, ‘MAKE YOUR VIEWS BE KNOWN MY PEOPLE. DEBATE AND DISCUSS THE ISSUES WHICH AFFECT YOU IN ORDER TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND EFFECT CHANGE!’
I would like to ask the law how they intend to prosecute this crime. Will they now begin to burst into bedrooms to begin the process of prosecution? Will they apply to the court for a warrant to obtain evidence from a private residence?
and when they are charged will they be sent to prison? think about it.
Fool…the law has been there for ages….the issue is about repealing it. so what r u talking about????
Sir Brian Alleyne, is questioning whether acts performed between consenting adults in the privacy of their own home should be prosecuted by the state—News Article
For some reason I don’t get that question above–especially that I read Mr. Skerrit saying that he is not into what people do in the privacy of their own homes, I am sure that I read from his message–of which I agree.
And so, if the above concern is truly the case of the “Homosexual (Buggery) Laws in Dominica, how does the State plan to arrest and charge those people, in the privacy of their homes?
Would they be bursting into people’s homes at any time of the day, with a search warrant, to find those who are in their bedroom and in action?
“He wonders whether matters done behind closed doors should be prosecuted by the state”–News Article
This wonder sounds so empty, and once again, how in hell’s name can this action be taken; who can know who is doing what in their private corner and to discover that they are doing something against the “Law of the Land”?
I am asking who has the right to enter a person’s home and to charge them for their intimate conduct there–for that is the only way actions can be taken against those persons; and yet God forbid this!
I am not one who is on the side of homosexuals and lesbian conducts, but there is something about this message that baffles me.
I read it over and over, the repetitions are the the same, such as: “He stated. “Should we prosecute a man and a woman who engage in anal sex, the abominable crime of buggery in the privacy of a bedroom, husband and wife perhaps.” News Article
I do not understand why this Alleyne person should compare sexual relationship between a man and his wife with that between a two men. No wonder he is questioning the “law”
I cannot see how it is about privacy, according to the Prime Minister–but it is about the public, and shameful display that those people want.
No one wants to see a man and woman engaged in any kind of sexual conduct either–they should be arrested and charged, just the same.
In Toronto, where I now live, the police will arrest a man who is caught urinating in a public place–much more for two men, or even man and women engaged in sexual conduct where people can see them.
There has to be mind discipline and training in the land, that is why we appoint people to lead us. They have to do the work which they were appointed to do–otherwise there would be no end to chaos,
“According to the former judge, the laws of Dominica condemn the abominable “crime of buggery committed either with mankind or any animal” but does not specifically define the crime”
The truth is the crime is easily defined; as far as I am concerned as long as the act of buggery takes place a crime is committed!
One may have homosexual tendency’s; and that applies to both men and women, as long as they refrain from the act of homosexuality, or as Dominicans say buggery, there can be no punishment, since the law has not be broken.
However, even consensual anal sexual intercourse between a man and his wife, that should constitute a violation of the law: I must also add if an incident occurs, one should not be punished for that; however, deliberate participation should be considered a violation of the law.
In the event it is not understood what I mean by an incident; without been vulgar; I am suggesting sometimes in the heat of passion, people are gyrating, the male sexual organ may slip and find itself in the anus, that warrants no punishment since it might be incidental. However if one indulges after the meeting of the minds, (agreeing to perform the act); it is a crime committed by both husband and wife!
So how do you punish them that may never happen unless they are caught in public, or unless doctors are obligated to report women to the authorities when on examination discovers a woman indulges in anal sex.
The sceptics who may ask how will a doctor know?
Well, anytime man or woman indulges in that a considerable amount of damage is caused to the muscles of the rectum, and anus, sometimes the damage is so severe, they are unable to properly contain the feces in the large intestine, and bowel, there are other distinguished marks that can be observed; how I know that: I majored in health science, and had the opportunity to witness the examinations of people who have indulged in such activity.
Francisco Etienne-Dods Telemaque
This is so refreshing after reading the terrible article (and all the commentary it contained) about the religious right condemning people. Thank you Sir Alleyne for bringing human rights and social justice to the issue of privacy.
Usually I support Brian Alleyne but not this time.
You are a student, a practitioner and a servant of the law. The act of buggery is against the laws of Dominica, leave it as that. Using your well accomplished background as a jurist to give your own interpretation of the law is giving credence to the homosexual agenda, and you know it too.
You see, what you learnt guys are not understanding is that the gays have already tumbled out of the closet and taken over the bedroom. But that is not enough, they now want to crash through the front door and spill unto the streets. And we and the law say no.
With all your knowledge you even want to compare the sexual act between a husband and a wife to that of two buggerers? Would you as wise jurist defend the rights of incest by two adults within their bedroom?
I tell you man, ‘what’s been hidden from the wise and prudent been revealed to the babes and sucklings…’
And these are whom we are trying to save from this immoral tsunami…the babes and sucklings.
AMEN!
clearly you did not get the point Sir Brian brought out….did you attend the lecture or listen on the radio? or did you just read an excerpt?
Why is this fear of gay people? You should be comfortable in your sexuality
‘not a herd follower’ more like ‘a real buller’!
Sir Brian has taken his time to precisely state his arguments. I hope people carefully consider the logical structure of his arguments before they start attacking him, which is typical of so many Dominicans who are unable to think critically.
I agree with Sir Brian that sodomy between consenting adults should not be crimimalised. However, I am not sure I agree with his notion that it is unnatural although it does not appeal to me. What does he mean by ”unnatural”? Is cunnilingus natural? If cunnilingus is natural (and many men and women believe it is so), why is sodomy unnatural? The vagina is a repository for waste (re menstrual cycle)as well. I will never forget what a medical student told me some years ago. He made the observation that sex involves the unhygienic parts of the body. Pleasure is dervied from organs through which waste from the body is passed out. Sex is part of our animalistic origin.
We try to impose moral code on the practice of sex but we cannot escape its ”animalistic” characteristics.
What is natural? Is something natural because the majority says so?What they do is natural; what others who are different do is unnatural? Is ”natural” something we desire and ”unnatural” something we do not desire or something we disapprove? Diseases are natural (in the sense they are caused by organisms that are part of the living world) but we do not desire them. Thoughts for consideration.
As far as sex is concerned, what is natural is…that which is necessary for the continuation of our species, the HUMAN race. If sex is somehow unnatural and dirty (simply because it involves the ‘waste’ organs) well please explain the natural process through which humanity will continue? I am a woman, and this reminds me of the insurance companies’ in Dominica arguing that pregnancy is not a medical condition but a “choice” that we make, therefore we women only receive up to $1000 EC coverage for making that “choice” to utilise our bodies as God intended.
It’s not right but it’s ok, hmm…in the name of god the mercyful, what do we stand for.
Every country, culture or community has their own mores and taboos. We can question other taboos and laws in our society such as a man or woman who wants to be free to take his/her own handsome son or beautiful daughter as a husband or wife or have consensual relationship, in the privacy of their bedroom, their own flesh and blood that they sweat to give life to. It is done in some cultures. But are we to take on their habits?
This demonstrates the lenghts some would go to promote and support a few who don’t get persecuted half the way large numbers of our marijuana smoking youth are persecuted and jailed while these same people stand aside and do nothing. Now hear their cry.
We have laws in place to protect national health. We are a nation. Some people take advantage of titles to break down law just to suit their own habits or that of their friends, but who needs those types of friends that seek to break down what little morality you have left or laws designed to protect the health of your nation. Some people need to simply move to other countries that promote such behaviors. These laws are there to protect us and our health system.
DNO, please if possible, post the entire lecture whenever you can for the benefit of those of us who could not be present. Thank you!!!!!!!!
Admin: Our server does not have the capacity to host the entire lecture but we can provide a link if it is hosted elsewhere.
Mr. Allyne, i think you should be doing something better with you time by drafting legislation to legalize ganja that to involving in buttom business.
Try to empathize the fact that it is wrong, don’t try to technically make it right, although i agree on the discrimination part, people should respect people sexual choices, but i don’t like that fact you getting in that when on the other hand you have opposed so many good things that could happen for Dominica when you was in the position to.
so please stay out of the batty business
Did you not read where he states that morally it should not be condoned….you just dont have any understanding….Immoral does not necessarily mean illegal….would your want the law to criminalize everything the church felt was immoral?..that means you would get arrested for having a child outside wedlock, arrested for sex before marriage, just to name too…so try to understand the point made….geez
This is actually only an EXCERPT of a lecture… a very SMALL excerpt at that. In the lecture, Sir Brian also addressed, for instance, the immorality of the DREAD ACT. As a member of the legal profession, and an active politician at the time, he clearly stated that he makes NO APOLOGY for saying that the DREAD ACT was WRONG and a violation of human rights. That essentially the law sought to punish people for choosing to wear a hairstyle. At the time, he was one of the people who was very vocal in opposing that law. This lecture was essentially on the Law of God – the Law of Man, and since this is such a hot topic, I don’t think he could have avoided it. I agree with his argument that not everything immoral should or can be illegal. However, I disagree that because it is in the privacy of the bedroom, it will cause no harm to anyone else. I believe that legally ‘accepting’ this abomination will reduce its effect over time on the overall concsience of society. However, it is an interesting question to consider, what we think about “buggery” by definition, between a man and his wife! And, should we make adultery illegal because it is immoral and definitely is degrading our society? Maybe we should!!
Very interesting article but i don’t think the “crafters” of that law were thinking about anal sex or other sex positions when they made that law , i think they were more concerned with same sex intercourse and not necessarily the organs that were involved , my reason for thinking so is why no “anal sex” but “oral sex”….. Can you imagine blowjob being a crime ( male and female), I think we are over analyzing the law when all they were probably thinking at that time was Same sex acts (making it illegal)
there is no way what man and woman do can be considered as buggery.hey we have to really read between the lines because is those big boys who are the strong advocates of those kind of life styles.
Buggery is anal sex between any two people male/male or male/female yuh damn SOT!!!
The learned lawyer should also acknowledge that is not where you put it is with whom you do it. if you do it with an animal is bestiality and if you are a man and you do it with another man is homosexuality and these acts are the same according to the word- abomination. no one wants to sleep in a pit toilet but why they they want to go there?
I have read and understand your point of view Mr Alleyne; but if one is seen in his/her bedroom engaging in act of buggery then that is no longer privacy and should be subjected to punishment.
In that case voyeurism could be punished too as it may make you an accessory.
What they say there? I didn’t get it!!! the person who is reading for me went out!!
Typical. if the PM had said that he will repeal. Alleyne would be against it.can’t you all read between the lines?
Then why is it a criminal act when a doctor takes the life of a suffering adult has conseted to have his or her life taken.
In my opinion if a man wants to love another man or a woman falls in love with another female partner I see no reason to have laws that prohibiting them being together– that’s their business not mine so long as what they are doing doesn’t harm others.
And what’s up with this public and private argument? Who have sex in public anyway? There is a law against that called “indecent exposure.”
Arguments against removing anti-homosexual laws are weak and doesn’t stand up to reasoned arguments; their arguments are all based on a book that was written by ignorant barbarians thousands of years ago who knew nothing of morality. And why should someone’s religion be factored into our secular system? Religion would have no say in our courts, especially our legal system.
Ohh no Mr Alleyne, you’ve erred here.
Aye y’all, open all you eyes – The homosexual agenda likes to latch on to these type of arguments as part of its mind-warped psychological warfare on the civilized of society.
I’m saddened to see Mr Alleyne allowing himself to be caught up in the propoagation of this absolutely stupid and cleverly crafted argument from the homosexual agenda.
Just now, somebody will extend this “Behind-the-doors-is-my-business” foolish point to all crimes eg why prosecute or go after consenting adults if they are….ummm for eg using illegal drugs in the privacy of their own house on their own land behind their closed doors?
Subliminal massages. Educated people trying to fool us with their good english. Say no to unnatural sex
massages you say?? hmm okay
So what here, am I hearing this right, you want to tell people what they can, and can’t do in their own private homes .me sarri fu unnu.
I am totally against Buggery in all forms, however mr. Alleyne points are valid.
i want to smoke my weed in the privacy of my home, its my body I can do what I want.it harm no one
Well me and my husband better be careful and make sure no body peeping when we in our haveing our annal sex or else is straight storcky for us. Review the law please its about time.
“Some Dominicans” are so damn ignorant its embarrassing. Read before opening your mouths, and I agree what theses people do in the privacy of their own homes is their damn business. And just to add, am a happily straight married woman, but by questions to Dominicans is would you all who rather have gays not being out in public, or have them remain on the down low where they can pretend to be straight and sleep with women while spreading diseases, “HIV” wake up, they are everywhere whether we agree with it or not.
These consensual immoral acts between humans usually extends to the exploitation of the down trodden. God allowed that immoral behavior to continue in Sodom and Gomorrah, but when they started having sex with the help ( the slaves, those poor souls, the down trodden, the abused), He wiped that place off the face of the earth. Moral of the story is… if you allow them to take an inch they will surely take yard. Check your Bibles.
Brian, I hate to say this. I am surprised that on the first day you would bring this up and ask such a question. Surely, you should know that whatever sexual actions two consenting adults do in the privacy of their home cannot be prosecuted.The discussion should never include animals for they cannot speak and are far removed from human beings and not to be compared to human beings; they cannot consent to such. Those who do this with animals, it is called bestiality and of course will be prosecuted if caught for it is also an abnormal action. It is when they are out in people as having sex in public that they will be prosecuted. If they hold hands in public, surely, they should not be persecuted. If what they do in the confines of their home is immoral and so offend our Lord, as He sees, He will mete out his just recompense to them. The government does not have the right in the homes of people, what they chose to do, away from the public eyes.
The government has never prosecuted homosexuals of all. I wonder if ever in this century or for the past 60 to 70 years. In those days they kept their personal lifestyle in private and did not go public with it and expect the entire country/world to approve and to legislate their abomination. The situation is that this immorality should never be legislated for it is abnormal.
Whatever married people do in the privacy of their homes, their bedrooms, is not the business of the State/government or police. Once again, if it is deemed immoral in the eyes of God, He will judge them. There also should be no discussion and debates about that.
Brian, you know what Holy Scripture states, in fact teaches against homosexual practice. If you do not know, I urge you to read from Romans to The book of Revelation. What is contained in Holy Scriptures is not man-made or thought of by man. It was not devised by Christians but is the Word of the Lord. They are our godly directives from God that we might live a godly, moral Christian life and thus obtain eternal salvation. Why should there be any discussions and arguments about that?
OMG…..are you serious?….did you even listen farless attend the lecture?….you have no clue what Sir Brian said….he has clearly stated that he is totally against the act and so is the church..as it is an immoral act..and abnormal…but also said that all that is immoral may not necessarily be illegal..and therefore questions weather the state should decide what immoral acts it prefers to criminalize…because the state can then decide to make whatever the church considers immoral to make illegal..sex outside of marriage, adultery etc…..listen,read and think before you speak!!!!!
A man and a woman having anal sex, nose sex, ears sex is not imorral, these are the art of love making.
What is immoral is homosexual and anal sex (that is actually grotesque, babaric and.medevial)
However, in our secular society we cannot legislate morrality.
Soon it will be beastiality…homosexuals bring his/her pet in the bedroom
This world is changing fast
Do you have a functioning brain, I really wpuld like to know, because that comment is all kinds of stupid!!!
Sir Brian talks sense. Many of us may abhor what the act describes but how does one prosecute consensual sex between adults, which takes place in private? I think offences like indecent exposure, offence, nuisance, causing a public disturbance etc. provide adequate cover should such acts take place in public.
Well Mr. Allyne has a point. I agree that grown folks can agree to have any kind of sex that they so chose in the privacy of their home. Morally it may not be right, however, their action should not be sanction by the criminal justice system.
I think mr alleyne is cleverly trying to distort the issue at hand.Buggery(and the gay lifestyle) as we know it is between two men,period!!which is what the law and the bible condems.Having anal sex with your wife in the privacy of one’s bedroom,in my view can be considered as being adventureous,since its falls under sex between a man and a woman.
Fletchin’ moron, its people like you that have us backwards, biased and ignorant!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its amazing how Dominicans can read a will thought out argument for the law. not the act but the law and yet be so closed minded to draw they own conclusion.
Mr. Allen has a very valid point on every single count.He is not condemning or supporting the art. simple approaching ti from the matter of law.
For that sir I appload you.
I really thought highly of Mr. Allyn within the legal bondaries; but all he has to do is ask himself ‘does the comitment of murder or any other illegalact within the confines of ones private residence warrant arrest and prosecution’.
Is it really an Art?
Mr. Alleyne articulated very eloquently. This is the point that i have been shedding light on in reference to the threads with similar topics. We are quick to bash homosexuality, yet many heterosexuals engage in anal sex. This is absolutely immoral. We cannot condone anal sex between a man and woman and yet condemn the exact act between two men. Totally wrong!
The law is general, so therefore it condems anal sex between a man and a woman; as that too is unnatural. If they are caught they will face the law. They are secretly evading the law. So no one is the wiser.
Thanks Sir Brian, good explanation. Now lets hope some people also review thier decision to remain in immoral activities.
was that all the lecture was about or is it that DNO wants to focus on one issue? I was not there and so I am awaiting the other points in that lecture
You expect DNO to cover everything from an hour or more long lecture?
A good news organization pick out the things that topical and is “hot” in the public domain.
The whole issue of homosexuality and buggery have been on the front burner of public discourse recent times, so naturally a good news organization would jump on it.
Keep waiting…
@Anonymous… there is another story from that lecture posted on DNO…. with Sir Brian’s comments on integrity in the legal profession. The link is below. interesting that the story has drawn only EIGHT comments… https://dominicanewsonline.com/news/homepage/news/crime-court-law/legal-professions-dishonorable-conduct-disturbs-alleyne/
Finally, someone from Dominica who addressed this issue objectively.
Are you insane? So what if a man brings his animal in his bedroom is that ok? Dominicans need to hold their ground and say no. Is Mr.Allyne under pressure from the bigger countries and is being coached to speak up. What will be next? If don’t stand for something, we will fall for anything.
Can an animal consent Abitrator?
Can you take a goat to your room and say “can we have sex” and the goat says “beeehhs?”
You people need to read and understand.
Mr Alleyne is talking about consensual actions.
Obviously you cannot read or havedifficulty understanding the article. Google the word “consensual”. Interesting to know what some of you do but if you do not like what another does (granted wrong is wrong) you all are the first to object…. Please undertand that a sin or any immoral act is not always a crime.
@ Anonymous: Should we practice consensual sex between brothers and sisters? It’s between two consenting adults right? Or, a man with his aunt or a woman with her uncle?
You are correct. The likes of UN, WHO, Human Rights. As for these, when they die, God will take care of them. You know how. They all better be careful as God is taking note.
Those organizations grant money to the small countries of all and so they pressure them into legislation of this immorality we call homosexuality and lesbianism.
Great Britain’s PM made this clear last year that if they do not legislate this abomination, funding will be withheld from them.
Obama as well. You may have heard what he stated about giving them rights as if they do not have rights as human beings, as all of us human beings. It is the first time that a US President proclaimed this abomination.
If I were the government, I would not succumb to them for this leads further down slippery slopes, down the path of perdition, the broad, wide path straight to Satan’s cauldron of everlasting fire and all those who have anything to do with it will follow that path. If only they knew what was awaiting them when they die they would live a godly life, not encourage immorality and legislation of same.
We might as well commence shedding tears for Dominica and for the rest of the world, for all of us in general, for as it is stated in Holy Scriptures, the Word of the Lord: “..For our God is a consuming fire.”
@ arbitrator You are quite insane indeed. This is quite intellectually put. Quite objective indeed! It gives room for a lot of further discussion, on the topic.I too believe that what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home, is their business, but “a lot of food for thought”. Not about goat but about the subject matter dealt with by Mr Alleyne.
Also, what about two consenting adults to anal sexs, one partner being retard or a psychopath.
Open up your mind and stop being controlled by emotions. It is people like you with such low reasoning that allow politicians so dumb and corrupt to blind fold the country.
Matt Peltier has a saying which he often repeats on his radio morning talk show. It is this: It is better to be thought of as a fool rather than open one’s mouth and remove all doubt. You should have heeded that advice, Arbitrator.
LMAF. You guys got me in tears
Arbitrator, what bigger countries? Do you realize what the US or UK or Spain, etc. are dealing with? Do you really think they have time to pressure Mr. Alleyne or Dominica on the subject of buggery? While you’re holding your ground on buggery, please remember the 10 commandments and be sure not to break one. smh.