COMMENTARY: The proposed electoral amendments – A response to Mr. Anthony Astaphan

Rev Dr. William Watty

Let me begin my response to Mr. Astaphan’s contribution, as published in the Sun of 6thJune, by endorsing his observation of my ignorance of the law, and add a word of appreciation for his leniency in the criticism. I would have been much more severe. I am not merely ignorant of the law; I am not at all interested. Period. For if the intent and purpose of the precedents, judgements and definitions Mr. Astaphan has so diligently assembled and researched was to justify and promote the outrage that is about to be visited upon our country with the amending of the House of Assembly (Elections) Act, then I am more than happy to leave that obsession and the skills it requires, to the likes of him, and rest content in my ignorance and indifference.

On the other hand, I promise that, whenever he finds it possible, not merely to resurrect all those precedents and definitions but, from the vantage-point of the distortions and contradictions that confront and threaten to destabilize our fragile democracy, also to interrogate them as eagerly as he is ever ready to invoke them, then I will try to stir up some interest and even take him a little more seriously. Until then, I must continue to dismiss him as I should any charlatan, and for this reason, viz. that he who is yet to confess the biases that so drive him to belch castigations at every unpalatable observation regarding the Government’s performance, now has the Aramaean gall to paint me partisan, and that naked, the better to prop his tottering credibility.

Therefore, I do have a real problem with his disingenuousness. Having digested my argument that, in the context of an Election, it is not the intention/motivation, which is neither apparent nor reliable, that can determine the bribe but, much better, the making of an offer of transportation that was not first requested, he preferred to detach my consideration of motivation/intention from its comparison with the superior validity of the unrequested offer, in order to dismiss the detached reference as “forensic nonsense”. If that is “law”, then may he prosper in his proficiency. I prefer to languish in my ignorance.

Perhaps his most devastating attack on my contribution was my hypocrisy, which he discovered in my belated outcry, after half a century of silence, during which these “bribes” were the common practice by all the Parties contending in the Elections. Under that blistering exposure, I was expected, no doubt, to shamefacedly withdraw my criticisms, ask for forgiveness and retire into perpetual silence. May I, however, offer two explanations in defence of my “hypocrisy”. Firstly, it was not in 1967, or the closing decades of the last century,but in the first two decades of this century, that the practice of bribery became so scandalous,escalated so shamelessly and became so decisive for the outcome of Elections, that it has now reached the point of being fumigated and sanitized by legislation “for the avoidance of doubt”. Secondly, and I hope he can bear with me, I was not here in 1967, or the rest of that century minus three years. I migrated in 1955 and did not return until 1997. If, therefore, Mr. Astaphan can explain to me how I could have appreciated the problem of bribery in Dominica from Kingston or London or Port of Spain or Birmingham or St. John’s, or how, from those distances, any input of mine could have made the slightest difference, when there was no DNO or Internet or even FAX, and the swiftest means of written communication was postage by Air Mail, I am all ears.

A good example, by the way, of the point I have been trying to make about the difficulties regarding the corrupt intention, is my difficulty in fathoming the intention that induced Mr. Astaphan to link me with Mr. Linton, since I am quite unaware of the connection he has attempted to forge. It ought, by now, to be common knowledge that, whatever one might think of him,Mr. Linton is well able to speak for himself and needs no mouth-piece. Let those political leaders who are in need of one, or any mouth-piece that needs a political leader, find one another and cleave; but Mr. Linton so far as I can surmise,will not for a long time be that Leader nor, God helping me, will I diminish myself to become another man’s mouth. God’s is more than enough for me. That clarified, I must now protest that nowhere have I ever written, hinted, implied or suggested that the provision of transportation, not previously requested, constitutes a crime. Whether it be so or not, I have neither the competence nor the ambition to pronounce on such matters. Mr. Astaphan should therefore read again what I wrote, or else hire an eye-piece to make up for any difficulty he might have in deciphering the vocabulary or unscrambling the complicated grammar. What I suggested was that, in the situation of an Election, whether in the planning stages or the on-going process, any offer of transportation made to a prospective Elector, that was not first requested was, in that context,tantamount to bribery. That is still my position, like it or lump it. Multiplying it by the hundreds, elevating it in the aircrafts, legalizing it “for the avoidance of doubt”,will not change the reality. It still spells bribery. It has nothing to do with the would-be benefactor’s intention which is, if I may say so,a red-herring; for who, but the corrupt inducer, can divine the “intention corruptly to induce”? However, whether it is, or should be, a crime is quite another matter and none of my business. Cite your Halsbury and all the eminent jurists if you like, it is of no avail. Deodorize it as best you can, bribery remains bribery. It is the context of an impending or on-going Election that renders the premature, because unrequested,offer so inappropriate that, when multiplied in plane loads, it becomes so scandalous and so dangerous. On the day following the Election, an offer of transportation, made by the same benefactor, to the same beneficiary, requested or not, and in the same vehicle, to the same destination, along the same route, will not be a bribe, but an act of kindness. The Election is over. However, in the context of an imminent Election, an offer of transportation that was not requested can mean only one thing and, for its determination, the intention or motivation of the would-be benefactor, being inaccessible and, in any event,inherently unreliable, is manifestly irrelevant.

Last, but not least, in recalling the time-honoured practice of Political Parties of mobilizing their members for transportation to Polling Stations,Mr. Astaphan, in casting aspersion on the importance I attached to the initiative of a request,may have either overlooked or chosen to ignore my mention of mitigating circumstances, deriving from substantive relationships characterized by depth, constancy and continuity. The particular example I cited was the obvious one of marriage, but the principle could reasonably be extended to Political Parties, or any other stable grouping with registered membership, where prior arrangements for transportation might quite legitimately anticipate consent from affiliated members without incurring the charge of bribery. Such a facility might, of course, be extended also to other passengers,“supporters” or not,provided that the offer was in response to an initial request and approved without duress or strings attached,or refused without prejudice. What is difficult about that?

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61 Comments

  1. Anon
    June 22, 2017

    Watts, we are not all supporters of Tony nor his lame attempt to legitimize their faut pas…but can u state that in English so we know what you are trying to say please?? That writing is so high school, message lost.

  2. Gary
    June 22, 2017

    I would like to ask Rev. Watty, if motivation/intention is neither apparent nor reliable to determine a bribe in the context of an election, then what is it that determines a bribe. Bribery has to be proven, something is not bribery because of what you believe. A belief is a personal conviction, you are entitled to your belief. The Law does no operate like religion where beliefs are just accepted as norm, our judicial system has procedures to determine whether someone has broken The Law.

  3. Mr. Shillingford
    June 21, 2017

    Brilliant critique to the untruthfulness and deception being practiced in this country. It also shows writing prowess, critical thought, and honest evaluations.
    This man will not be another’s mouthpiece but the mouthpiece of justice, mercy and rightness – much of what is lacking in Dominica.

    Best, Shillingford

  4. mine
    June 21, 2017

    Those so called rev. God is watching one day this collar will chock you all.

  5. Dominican
    June 21, 2017

    Watty go get some charity to run. You say a whole heap of nothing with lots of words and that’s all it is. Only UWP cronies will agree with you even if you come here and say shit shit shit

  6. Jonathan St jean
    June 21, 2017

    Thank you Dr.Watty,a real doctorate,for such an reasoned response to Tony Ass-ta-phan.I can’t understand why this man will continue to use his brilliant intellect to propagate ignorance among a certain segment of the population.It only shows his selfish side. I’m not judging him, because we all have our demons,but I just don’t get it that as a son of the soil he takes pleasure in systematically playing this evil role in the history of the country.Maybe I shouldn’t be, because the fruits don’t fall far from the tree,look at the tax avoidance legal matter of the company he is associated with by birth.Patrick John had Leo Austin now Skerritt has Tony Ass-ta-phan.History surely repeats itself,I just didn’t see it happening so quickly

  7. shrewd
    June 20, 2017

    I hope no religious leaders will never preach about birbery in a negative way, especially those who support this act. Religious leaders will have zero influence on people unless they speak against wrong doing, irregardless of who does it. Thank you Dr watty.

  8. Mr.Prolific
    June 20, 2017

    When we write we write for others and not ourselves. Whenever Mr. Linton state an article we get over hundred comments. With this article, we are down to thirty, so what is so good about the article, except PM must go. I am on www. so I have to let the rest of the world knows we are just not Robots down here.Every news items reads PM MUST go like they are programmed. I hope if the PM BY ACCIDENT come across these he will have a good laugh.

    • viewsexpressed
      June 21, 2017

      It is a prolific matter and urgency that Skerrit Must Go.

      His Labour Government is corrupt and lack all decency to run this country. They have abused their powers, lack Transparency, ignorance of good governance and failed o accountabiity. This what is know as possible thievery in government and until the records are cleared we will await for Skerrit to Go… Skerrit must Go

  9. Ibo France
    June 20, 2017

    Politics has become an incurable cancer which is having very devastating repercussions in our society. If you are brave and honest enough to challenge the status quo, you are summarily regarded as unpatriotic and subjected to torrential amounts of vicious and heinous attacks on your character. There is an urgent need for more Dr. Wattys to speak truth to power. Too many citizens of influence stay in their comfort zones mortally afraid to speak out against blatant wrongdoings by the powers that be. Keep speaking out Dr. Watty as the truth may be an offence but not a sin. Let me remind you that every society honors its live conformists and its dead trouble makers ( Marcus Garvey, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, etcetera).

  10. Mr.Prolific
    June 20, 2017

    Mr. Astaphan is always short and sweet and stick to the point. All Tony is saying is this:- Follow your office code of practice; Trust no one, Believe no one, and don’t get involved. If you can do this, you will get Tony off your backs.

  11. freedom fighter
    June 20, 2017

    Don’t waste your ink and paper, Sir.

  12. viewsexpressed
    June 20, 2017

    Eminent people like Dr. Watty continues to demonstrate statesmanship, loyalty to his faith and good governance and presents mature dialogue representing the issues affecting and are concerns by most Dominicans. Many Thanks Rev. Watty. The issue now is for we Dominicans to read, digest, dialogue, be aware of what’s happening in Dominica and debate with friends with respect, dignity and honour.

    The unfortunate presenting distractions are Tony Astaphan, this Corrupt Labour government, the inept questionable PM Skerrit and his blind cronies referred to as supporters. There is the that Skerrit Must Go and he must go now. Free Dominica from these evil political misfits and dishonourable men and women associated with Skerrit and his corrupt government.

  13. Marcus Hill
    June 20, 2017

    Dr. Watty “murdered” you boy!! Not even plain English you can read and understand!!

    “Astaphan should therefore read again what I wrote, or else hire an eye-piece to make up for any difficulty he might have in deciphering the vocabulary or unscrambling the complicated grammar.”

    • JOSHUA FANATIC
      June 20, 2017

      good rubbish rev W

    • Gary
      June 20, 2017

      Why do you write such nonsense. Do you know a Lawyers trade is
      built on words, it’s their asset.

      • Marcus Hill
        June 22, 2017

        Seems like you and Tony have the same problem!!

  14. Marcus Hill
    June 20, 2017

    Get recked Tony!!!
    “Let those political leaders who are in need of one, or any mouth-piece that needs a political leader, find one another and cleave; “

  15. June 20, 2017

    Well writen piece, but that is all. This doesn’t come anywhere close to responding to what Astaphan wtote. Rev. Watty seems to be totally ignoring the application of law in favor of his studied opinion. Bribery is bribery scandalous or otherwise. If the law should be ignored when talking about the crime of bribery why talk about it?

    • JOSHUA FANATIC
      June 20, 2017

      REV i never read ignorance like that .

    • AWA WI
      June 21, 2017

      It appears you had difficulties in comprehension of his response as well.

  16. jaded
    June 20, 2017

    Dr. Watty says a lot about nothing. The fact that he continues to insist that if I volunteer to drive a friend to the polls and he accepts that I am committing bribery is utter nonsense. Just admit that you are wrong, Dr. Watty. At the end of the day this is a matter of law which no citizen can be indifferent to since it controls our behavior. You are out of your league, sir.

    • “Dr. Watty says a lot about nothing.”

      Are you crazy, or simply ignorant!

      William Watty did not say it the way I am saying it now; and I want you to quote me saying ‘it is indeed a crime for one to transport, an individual from anywhere in the diaspora, to Dominica to vote for the labor party, or any other political party on the island.’

      Anytime a political party provides transportation to any to go to the poles and vote that is nothing more than a bribe! If the succeeded in amending the law, that would have given the labor party, the privilege of transporting their supporters from constituency to constituency, to vote multiple times, and that would constitute a crime!

      Dr. Watty said a lot about everything except you are to ignorant to understand his language; the color red, and a smart phone, or a computer cannot educate one beyond kindergarten level!

  17. AWA WI
    June 20, 2017

    R.I.P Senior Counsel. We all know you didn’t do that great in law school. Now here is the hanger for your jacket,

  18. Peace Officer
    June 20, 2017

    Wonderful Piece of Literature

  19. EnfantDiable
    June 20, 2017

    Rev Dr. William Wilberforce Watty must be commended again and again. The change of legislation is to legitimize what was done in December 2014. Nothing more . Nothing less. All the “Kings Men, Mules and Donkeys ” with all their learning and jurisprudence cannot hide or destroy and bury that fact.
    In December 2014 THEIR EXCELLENCIES (now reposted) managed the organization of diasporans in the many hundreds to gather at the central hub in MIAMI(MIA) and dispatch them by direct flights or thru San Juan(SJU) (and then SEABOURNE or LIAT etc) to Dominica. In SJU they were put up at the San Juan Airport Hotel,(where they made appropriate calls) and were met on landing in Dominica and transported to La Plaine, Grand Fond. St Joseph, etc.
    The AA staff at MIA found the amassing of Dominican passport holders for onward flight to Dominica that week end quite amazing. And said so.
    Rev Dr Watty’s counsel should be heeded. Those who ignore it may be inviting civil war!

    • Ron C
      June 20, 2017

      Interesting that the election results in six seats of the parliamentary seats were deemed to be free from bribery, treating and corruption. Bribery, teating and corruption existed only in the 15 seats the opposition lost. Wow!!! Does this sound like the proverbial “sour grapes”.

      • viewsexpressed
        June 21, 2017

        No, ohhh no, it is the truth and Truth Hurts. Go take paracetamol……..One every five years of the corrupt Labour Bobol era..

  20. JBaptiste
    June 20, 2017

    Educated people such as Dr.Watty is this administration’s kryptonite.
    Hint: If you want favours or otherwise from them, don’t read,don’t listen to the news,don’t ask questions, don’t talk to your neighbors if they support opposing views . Smh.

  21. 20yearoldman
    June 20, 2017

    Thank you, my good man, for standing up against those wicked people who would have us tie the noose around our own necks by supporting this amendment to legalise bribery. Thank you.

  22. Truth Be Told
    June 20, 2017

    I thank God that Dominica is still blessed with right minded, decent, thinkers like you Rev. Dr. William Watty!

  23. FORKIT
    June 20, 2017

    that is no burrowed or over-nightly installed PHD student. in my view, Rev. Professor Watty is GOD SOLDIER against tyranny and unrighteousness.

  24. Dr Clayton Shillingford
    June 20, 2017

    I am in complete agreement with Rev Dr William Watty’s analysis and his conclusions re Tony Astaphan..and the practice of bribery in Dominican elections..Let’s see what Tony Astaphan..has to say now..I do not expect that he will sue..I urge once more the Bar Association to do the right thing and invite Tony Astaphan to participate in the panel discussion planned on the “election issues”,,please do not allow him a hole to crawl through/

    • Politics of Truth
      June 20, 2017

      Dr. Shillingford the unconditional Transporting of electors is not Bribery.

      • Psychologists
        June 20, 2017

        Prove your claim with credible sources from the constitution.

      • I'M NOT A PRIME MISTAKE!!!
        June 20, 2017

        So-called politics of truth, the transportation of electors was never unconditional! People were recruited,selected and given airline tickets to specifically vote in a particular way,

      • You are a fool to believe your own thoughts!

        It is bribery when government and their acolyte provides the transportation for people to travel from place to vote. If you pay my passage from Los Angeles to Dominica to vote, you are expecting me to vote for the party of your choice, or the party at which expense I traveled to Dominica and back to Los Angeles.

        That is a crime of bribery!

        When the Labor party pay the passage of Dominicans living in Canada, and America to travel to Dominica to vote, do you anticipate the recipients of that free ride to vote for the opposition?

        You lack the ability to think cognitively, but I assume you might be able to utilize a minimum of commonsense if you have any; try using some commonsense.

      • Jonathan St jean
        June 21, 2017

        If it is not bribery,then why is the government trying to now make it legal in parliament,also why is it not practiced in the USA and Canada and European countries to bring in electors by plane load,instead they send out provisional ballot so they can vote from overseas

    • Ron C
      June 20, 2017

      Dr. Clayton Shillingford, and your UWP supporters conto#inue to ignore the fundamental point of view of the commenary. Well written, but nor for the ordinary man. Theordinary man has to rely on your interpreattion of what is written. That being said. the arguments of Dr. watty is that the law does not matter. It does not matter what the law says. he is dealing with philosopy and moral values. Whose morality should our country adopt in order to be managed properly? Isn’t the law, enacted l0ng before PM Skerrit became Prime Minister, a set of behavioiural principles, that have been accepted by society and all of us are supposed to accept irrespective of our individual morality. To throw cold water on the system of laws is frightening. Why? Just becaiuse somebody in 2017 is taking advantage of what that has been in existence fro 100 years. He is not calling for amendments to the law. He is saying irrespective of what the law says, our civility has to be driven a particular moral value.

  25. Skeritt Must Go... Now!
    June 20, 2017

    Dear Rev Dr. William Watty,

    I thank the almighty God for such a brain like you… and Dominican. What I so very much like about you is that you never harbour knowledge.

    Your response to Mr Anthony Astaphan on the proposed electoral amendments is and education, a true process of facilitated learning. This piece reads like storytelling, discussion, teaching, training, and directed research – what excellent educational method.

    In your response, you’ve taken into consideration theories of learning for the average D/Can civilians like me, understandings of peoples’ inadequacies and their needs, and the backgrounds and interests of others.

    Thank you.

  26. Tj
    June 20, 2017

    Well said Dr. Watty. It is hard to ignore the minister without portfolio. Tony Astaphan behavior is and that of Judas Iscariot

  27. June 20, 2017

    You that Reverend you like politics well run for it you in d wrong ministry you should be our there praying for us and bringing us closer to christ

    • viewsexpressed
      June 20, 2017

      If you are Not concerned for yourself, then I am.. Shut up, go read, comprehend, educate yourself and get and away from the political thief of this Corrupt labour government.

      Skerrit must Go: Run away from his, he is dangerous….run as far as yo ucan from him, if not you will be failed concerned left behind clown

    • I'M NOT A PRIME MISTAKE!!!
      June 20, 2017

      So-called concerned,what’s wrong with liking politics :?: I suppose you do as well :?: This man is wise and is an intellectual and not a denigrating man like ass-ta-fan! You will do well by reading and listening from the real Dr.Watty. Why should Dr.Watty not have a political view when every political decision affects him :?: Are you saying that those you support should not be involved politically :?:

  28. %
    June 20, 2017

    One of the MOST BRILLIANT piece published by DNO,written by a GREAT DOMINICAN scholar…I particularly liked the part that says “Linton needs no mouth—piece.Let those political leaders who are in need of one,or any mouth—piece that needs a political leader find one”. WOW!
    I must alert my co—workers to find this response by this Doctor,and read it!.ITS A MUST READ!!! You must have been a very good english and/or Literature student Dr Watty..You have forced me to pay a visit to my dictionary!!!
    M A G N I F I C E N T R E S P O N S E !
    I stood up against this blatant,in your face,corrupt SO CALLED AMENDMENT!. It spelt EVIL,from the word “go”!

  29. anonymous2
    June 20, 2017

    Mr. Astaphan has no principles. Everything is about politics and money.

  30. Vex
    June 20, 2017

    Another masterpiece from a high repute intellectual . Thanks Dr. Watty for not doing like the Bishop and priests of my Church remain silent while bribery and treating is made legal. Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first practice to deceive (Shakespeare)

    • Jonathan St jean
      June 21, 2017

      The bishop has sold the Catholic faith for $500 thousand dollars

  31. ye yep
    June 20, 2017

    i wish bishop Malzaire had the T fortitude of this guy

  32. TEETEEWEE
    June 19, 2017

    Watty you lose me we.
    Oral comedy.
    Too complex and ill planned .
    Poorly structured.
    Read it three times .
    Stay away from law.
    Stick to theology .
    U GRADED ESSAY .

    • If you spent a little more time in school, perhaps reaching the third grade you would not be that stupid.

      Here you are a nobody in comparison to a man who has a Ph. D; you trying to insult someone who perhaps not been for his spirituality could have looked you up, fart in your face, and wipe his feet on you!

      Where do you people come from?

      Scum of the earth like you make the world outside of Dominica, wonder if all of us Dominicans are as stupid as you are. You all accepted everything Tony said because he is a lawyer. But so many of us only from a academical point of view found lots of flaws in Tony’s legal argument, we research his legal argument and found it is fill of decaying baloney

      Some of Tony’s argument would not even hold water in a Dominica kangaroo court. Why are you people so dumb, why are you so stupid! Is it Dominica politics which made you all so smart?

    • Papa Dom
      June 21, 2017

      You should change you tag to TEETEEWEE BRAIN

  33. CONVOLUTED WATTY
    June 19, 2017

    CASE A : I asked a RED driver for a vep TO THE POLLING STATION = no bribery .
    CASE B : A BLUE driver gives me a vep TO THE POLLING STATION= bribery.

    According to Reverend WATTY The Blue Driver should be guilty of BRIBERY whereas the Red Driver should not be arrested , charged or convicted of BRIBERY .

    Watty for a big old experience man I find your arguments are very weak, contradictory and illogical . OK Sir nonsense you talking. A A so if Lennox stop for me his campaign manager on election day and drops me to vote then he Lennox can take jail for that ? Watty that is what you pushing ? No way . Leave law for lawyers and cite one case in the world where that is the law. WATTY WADDY & MAMMO & ROSIE Laughing at you.

  34. Always
    June 19, 2017

    I am guessing that Tony is this reviewing his law notes and “deciphering the vocabulary or unscrambling the complicated grammar.” Lol. OMG.. …?????

  35. NO MORE LINTON
    June 19, 2017

    ‘ OUTRAGE THAT IS ABOUT TO BE VISITED UPON OUR COUNTRY ‘.
    This is the very epitome of political blasphemous rhetoric that the significant masses of God fearing and law-abiding citizens of our beloved Dominica is subjected to.
    The great book speaks voluminously of the very sanctity of blessed peacemakers : the children of God. Outrage presupposes an appeal for the germination of lawlessness and civil war disobedience in Waitukubuli. No one in their right mind can accept this intellectually flawed, grossly immoral and demented position .
    It is people like you who have corrupted the Northern Wing of our UWP . You must realize that the arrogance of yourself and ignorance of Linton will never get us back into office . My TASK in the four ROSEAU SEATS is made more daunting by prophets of misinformation like yourself . Our Party is quickly loosing national support and a change of leadership is a must. Shame that Case law and the judgment of our courts mean absolutely nothing to you.

    • Zor Sot
      June 20, 2017

      SPOKEN LIKE THE TRUE LABOURITE THAT YOU ARE!

      Don’t come here with this comical comment, posing to be a UWP supporter with the name “NO MORE LINTON”!!!!!

      The use of sweet flowing words, nicely complied to boost of a wide vocab, does not hide your malicious intent.

      Take your BS and piece of sh*t comment, folded it nicely and stuff it… you know where.

      • JOSHUA FANATIC
        June 20, 2017

        I think you need to
        1. Stop drinking
        2. Start reading

        Linton cannot lead us into victory . The problem with many BLUE NORTHERNERS is that anyone who says negative things about Linton is quickly classified as labourite. We cannot form government on our own therefore we need to continue to try converting them to BLUE. Linton approach to politics is driving even UWPers away much less DLPites; we cannot win this way.

        REV WATTY message is not penetrative and makes no legal or logical sense . Where is the law to support of his very confusing ridiculous article ? Marigot isn’t Dominica and Roseau people are not happy with the direction which the party is taking. Give SIKIWEE a chance . Linton dont have a degree and he has too much on his hand . Joshi not 100% but he can try something . Look Dr F is busy in Sudan . Issac only wants Deputy.

    • %
      June 20, 2017

      Garbage to the highest order.Go spew to your corrupted gang in the DLP.

    • Papa Dom
      June 21, 2017

      So because tony as -tafan says he is quoting case law that is correct? Have you tried researching the cases and articles referenced by this dishonest ass-Tafan guy to find out how relevant they are or what alternative views are proffered on the subject?

  36. Friday
    June 19, 2017

    Superb writting Sir…..I am aspiring to someday write at least half as good

    • JOSHUA FANATIC
      June 20, 2017

      u too wikid we

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