Are the churches really Christ-like

Dear Editor

Why do I ask that question? You might wonder. For many years now I have been looking at religions with a constructively critical eye. While I commend them for making God’s word available to many and teaching some good moral principles, I do think that the churches are not generally living up to and upholding the standard of God to a satisfactory degree.

1) The churches are “running down” the Jehovah’s Witnesses too much. Now if the pastors and their church members feel that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are wrong, why don’t they speak to the Jehovah’s Witnesses to correct them when they visit their homes? Why do the pastors tell their members not to listen to the Jehovah’s Witnesses when they come to their doors?

If the pastors are truly “Christians,” why don’t they show love to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and help them, and urge their members to do likewise, rather than encourage their members to shut their doors on Jehovah’s Witnesses?

I know of a case where hot water was thrown on a Jehovah’s Witness by someone who claimed to be a Christian. In another case, urine was thrown at a Jehovah’s Witness, again by a member of a church claiming to be a Christian. These actions could never be right.

Yes, Christ said that Christians are to expect persecution, which Jehovah’s Witnesses meet frequently (Matthew 24:9; John 15:20). But when those who claim to be Christians are the ones doing the persecuting, then I shake my head and ask: Are they really Christians? Are they truly Christ-like?

Christ said to love even our enemies (Matthew 5:44). So why not love the Jehovah’s Witnesses too? Jehovah’s Witnesses speak to all who are willing to converse, even if they disagree on doctrines in the end.

From my observation, I think that the churches must be willing to use the bible to a much greater extent to prove their beliefs and practices. Their members seem afraid to defend their beliefs, hence, they feel it is the best course to avoid Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I personally think that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do a fine job in the way they use the bible to prove their beliefs and practices. Give credit where it is rightfully due. Of course, anyone is free to believe what he or she wishes, freedom of thought.

2) The churches are tolerating wrongs such as: Pastors committing adultery and preaching sermons still; pastors and church members fornicating and they are still highly admired by many in the church, even taking communion in their sinful state. They are only fooling themselves. Are they really Christ-like?

3) Politics is dividing church members. Even when elections are over, church members have been keeping malice with each other due to having different political affiliations. Are they seriously Christ-like?

The above-mentioned are honest, truthful observations I have made over the years, and I think that any fair-minded person would do well to consider the facts as he or she truly sees them. Let the truth be told and make us free. John 8:32.

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54 Comments

  1. J.J.John Charles
    February 29, 2012

    Flintoff are you sure that the people who threw hot water and urine on the so-called Jehovah witness. Are believers in Christ who are saved by the wonderful grace of the Lord?.

    You have the right to believe the JW do a fine job the way they use the bible to prove their belief. But the ? is What they believe?
    Christ said the date of His return no one knows Matthew 25:13.But the Witnesses told Christ you are wrong,We Know the exact time.They have set several dates.These dates came and gone.Are they faults witnesses?

    Jesus said I am the only one that can saved sinner.Again JW said no.Their way of salvation is to go house to house telling sinners,There is no hell fire,God is too good to punish people.Only 144.000 will go in heaven (Although this number only refers to the 12 tribes of Israel.Just read Revelation 7:9 and it says.

    “After this I saw a vast crowd,too great to count,from all nations and provinces and languages etc.Again are they faults witnesses?.

    JW teaches that Christ is not God the Almighty,they say he is a god.But Jesus claimed to be God.John 10:30,8:58,5:17.In all 3 passages the next verse the Jews took up stones to kill Christ,because this was the punishment of anyone who claimed to be God.The true witnesses, like the Apostles,This is Paul in Titus 2:13….Our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.Thomas in the gospel of John 20:28 ..My Lord and my God.He called Christ God
    The greatest of all God the Father call Christ God Hebrews 1:8 Your throne O GOD,is forever and ever.
    I can give many more evidence to prove JW is a cult.
    But the question is to you Roy Flintoff, is this group a faults witness?

  2. say
    February 29, 2012

    JW’s never claim to have an infallible doctrine, they dont have a human leader,but as a group they are humble and willing to change to reflect gods thinking as the understanding increases Prov 4:18,19, they are an open book and nothing is in hiding, do you read how many publications they have? they dont hide when they got things wrong,they record it, they admit and move on! This is nothing to be ashamed of!

  3. honestheart
    February 29, 2012

    interesting discussion.. listen to this now!
    Jesus’ example and instruction is clear.
    1. example: with 70 disciples, house to house no appointment required- some would welcome some would not, Luke 10:1-6
    2. instruction: preach worldwide till the end, sign of the last days, he will be with them Mt 24:14; Mt 28:19,20
    also apostles example and instruction is convincing
    1. house to house,lovingly self sacrifice, under persecution-Acts 20:20-24
    2. exhortation to preach urgently; all seasons,lovingly with skillful art of teaching 2 Tim 4:2
    Who is doing this work today.. answer is JW’s.
    also strong record of discipline for unrepentant wronggdoers; no part of the world in politics and united in that way. the writer knows he is quite correct in saying the “churches” are not following Christ’s example or commands John 4:23,24-worship God in spirit and TRUTH (his word is our guide)

  4. Ras
    February 28, 2012

    What happen to points 2 & 3 of the article? Nobody commenting on those? People just making some useless commenst only on point number 1. There are three points people, NOT just one.

    Here are the points again:

    2) The churches are tolerating wrongs such as: Pastors committing adultery and preaching sermons still; pastors and church members fornicating and they are still highly admired by many in the church, even taking communion in their sinful state. They are only fooling themselves. Are they really Christ-like?

    3) Politics is dividing church members. Even when elections are over, church members have been keeping malice with each other due to having different political affiliations. Are they seriously Christ-like?

    • Jen
      February 29, 2012

      I had a catholic uncle who molested me and his own daughters. He was a drunk, a thief and good for nothing. when him dead, they preach that him go to purgatory and my grandmother paid all kinds of money to say prayers to get him out to go to heaven. what kind of something is that? Of all the people who should have gone to hell, he was one of them. I will never step foot in a catholic church again.

  5. Hmmm!
    February 28, 2012

    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ…Colossians 2:16-17. If we all examine ourselves in light of God’s Word to see whether we are in the faith we would not be pitting one denomination against another because we would be too focussed on learning to love, respect, appreciate, support and uphold each other…Pure and udefiled religion before God and the father is to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world..James 1:27

  6. Waitukubuli
    February 28, 2012

    When you all put religion aside and take up relationship with the GOD of heaven and EARTH you will start walking in liberty. You are too entwined with the cords of religion. Anyone who attach a religous label to himself have not yet formed a relationship with CHRIST. All JESUS ask is to “follow” HIM. He never named anyone baptiste, seven day adventist, jehovah witness, pentecostal or what have you. He simple say those who recieve HIM and believe in HIS name is given the right to be called a CHILD OF GOD.

  7. Reality Check
    February 28, 2012

    I must agree with you on the matter of the very poor behavior of certain Priests and Pastors; especially of late. However, I dare any JW to vow forsaking their life that there is no such matters in their own and such that their leaders know not about and some leaders are even involved in.
    My grandfather was a devoted JW and it was shameful the way he was treated by his people when he could no longer work or afford to make donations so I am already going to admit that I am somewhat biased. It is because of that bias though that I was able to step back and take a really good look at not just the JW’s, but all the other religions and I have to agree with you that they are all flawed.
    I will not tolerate nor condone anyone causing harm, physical or mental, to another human being. That being said I feel ashamed as a being under God that “Christians” have been persecuting others because of their faith. It sounds as ridiculous as it is. However, I have been one who has first hand spoken with JW’s and you should see the way they get on when you try to give them a part of you doctrine that they do not agree with. They treat it like rubbish and talk down to you like they are the righteous. They try to dominate the conversation and try to leave you with all the information they can; not to mention getting a donation.
    so I would like the JW’s to examine themselves as well. The pompous attitudes have to go. The overbearing self righteousness has to go.
    Oh, let me leave you with a little homework. Find out who the leader/founder of the JW’s was, compare the doctrine he brought forward and what is still present today, find out where and how he was buried, research on the cult name that will come up and then do some soul searching.

    This will be your Reality Check.

  8. February 28, 2012

    Why do people think JW’s know who is going to answer the door & what their circumstances are? Do those who hate their visits also hate when the UPS or FedEx people show up at their door unannounced? THEY don’t know what’s going on inside a home either. But if some people really do not want JW’s visiting simply ask to be put on their “DO NOT CALL” list. Then you will only be visited once a year to see if all in the household still feel the same way or if a different family has moved in & would like to study the Bible. As for interrupting your life, why not make an appointment with them so you’ll be expecting them at a convenient time for YOU? THAT would make BOTH parties happy, no?

  9. February 28, 2012

    I am leaving at Bath Estate next to one of you all. and that lady is now with a married man for the past ten or more years. while you are looking at others, yours are doing the same thing. Ask any nurse they will tell u.

  10. Gary
    February 28, 2012

    I wonder if the writer of the commentary would examine his own religion putting it under the same scrutiny regarding the question that was asked rather than pointing fingers at other religions regarding their faults and treatment towards his religion. What this writer is doing is not anything new,this is a basic treat of all followers of religion,criticizing other religions doctrines and short falls, believing theirs to be superior or the best way to God.I do not know if this writer knows anything about self examination it is not only the most difficult thing to know oneself, but the most inconvenient and that is where he should start.

    Why is it people of religious faith think that to show love and compassion to other beings like themselves they have to be somewhat connected to a Christ figure or believe in some holy book.Religion has never been and never will be the force of love as it’s masquerades it self to be, it is all an illusion fed to people. The love we all talk about and want in this world has to start with each individual loving himself rather than taking on beliefs and dogma from Institutions, Churches, Pastors, Or any so called religious leader.

    When the writer say that his observation is true and honest based on many years being a member of of his particular faith. I wonder if he understands and know what truth is, and what honest observation is. What was written in this commentary passing as truth and honest observation is solely based on religious belief. He the writer is entitled to his beliefs, personal or religious and has a right to promote his religion but must remember that there is a difference between what you believe as truth and what the truth is. What you perceive, your observations, feelings, interpretations, are all your truth. Your truth is important. Yet it is not the truth.The search for the truth cannot be found by accepting beliefs and dogma no one has found truth that way.

    • Clueless
      February 28, 2012

      Wow, that sound like allot of nothing that you just said. As if it was passed on from a book written by someone else. Tell me Gary, before Jesus and the religion of love which he taught and promoted, were their any teachings concerning loving your neighbors or enemies? Were there any establishments like the red cross or other humanitarian organisation. Were there any that took care of the less fortunate of disabled? You may not know or acknowledge it but because of the teachings and actions of Jesus and the great influence that he has had on our world these things came to be.

  11. My2Sense
    February 28, 2012

    I am a firm believer that “organized” religion was simply another tool used to control and manipulate the masses. Being more powerful, the “civilized” cultures overran pagan societies and brainwashed them with tales of burning bushes, fire and brimstone and three kings. I am not saying that these events didn’t happen, but their occurrence no more proved God’s existence than some of the miracles experiences by the more indigenous civilizations around the world.

    I believe in one God who set the wheels in motion to allow the formation of this vast universe and the evolution of life as we know it. I know what is wrong and what isn’t and I strive to live life as a decent person who is concerned with not only my life, but also the lives of those around me. I am not happy if my neighbour is unsheltered or hungry, and while I might not feed the poor every day, I will help when I can and hope to encourage others to do so.

    If there is an afterlife or heaven or whatever-you-wanna-call-it, I’m sure I will get there if I am true to myself.

    • Clueless
      February 28, 2012

      In reply to My2Sense… To have something or anything to believe in is great but to know where your beliefs come from is equally important. If you say you know what is right and wrong unless your over 2000 yrs old I am pretty sure that many of your ideas of right and wrong comes from the bible it’s teachings. You may not even know it but directly or indirectly they do or at least from one for of organised religion or the other.
      And if you believe that there is a God you should be true to that one God and not to yourself as you’ve stated. Some of us just don’t like organised religion in the same way we do not like the government of Police etc. We just do like the idea of being submissive to anything else but our own ideas ways.

      • My2Sense
        February 29, 2012

        The concept of “right and wrong” is a lot older than 2000 years. Civilizations existed and endured with their version of the Ten Commandments long before Moses came down from Mount Sinai. And it is interesting to note that many of those rules were similar in intent to what we know as the Ten Commandments.

        My point is this – it is the difference in opinion over the origin of these beliefs that has caused so much of the division we see today. In fact, many core beliefs are common in most of today’s organized religions, but obviously, that’s not enough since we can observe persecution and discrimination around the world.

        As far as being true to God… by doing what I think is right on a daily basis, I think I am being true to God. I say this because in my opinion, most of what has become the norm for believers (going to church regularly, tithing, singing in the choir, Bible study, ascending through the sacrament, etc) does not bring us closer to God. I think it is our everyday dealings that determine our true worth as individuals.

        Are you kind to your neighbour? Do you bully your classmate? Did you offer to help the elderly lady cross the road? Did you slam the door in the Jehovah Witness’ face? Did you not hire the Seven Day Adventist because of her religion? And the list goes on…

        These everyday interactions are what I think God judges us on. I might be wrong, but I trust that he will steer me in the right direction eventually. If we isolate the human hand from religion I know we will realize that we’re all too much alike to be so disagreeable about something so many of us agree on.

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    • Greg
      September 4, 2015

      So you’re SURE you’re going someplace you’re not sure exists because you’re true to yourself. Wow. These kinds of comments are what make me reply to 3 year old threads.

  12. February 28, 2012

    i never had a problem with jehovah witnesses coming home… in fact they came so much that they were regulars… i don’t care what church you go to… once you let ‘day of worship’ bring division between religion then my friend you may not accept it but satan is at work…. so if you worship on a saturday and i on a sunday… this means you going heaven and i’m going to hell??? so this means your church is better than mine??? but how so?? don’t we go to the same Church of the blood of Jesus Christ??? ain’t we baptised in His Name??? my people stop letting misguided pastors following elders doctrine blind your vision. this is the devil at work bringing division… all on facebook i see people making mockery about jehovah witnesses… even comedians doing mockery about jehovah witnesses…. Remember the movie “Coming to America?” when the girls father realised that akeem was a prince… he wanted akeem for his daughter… the bell rang and the dad went to open… the daughters date was at the door… he closed it and when asked who was it… what was his response??? oh it’s the witnesses!!! so witnesses have been ridiculed for years… i’m not a witness but i do believe in jesus christ and never have i experienced a witness teaching me some doctrine… whenever they teach, they always refer to the bible…which i have also…. so if you have an issue with the witnesses teachings.. simply invite them in and have a mature discussion about God’s Word… you all will make satan go mad in hell when he sees that happening…. but when you decide to bad-talk and throw missiles at the witnesses… my bros n sis… the devil is laughing at you… he knows you are doing his job… and i’m telling you that if you are one of those… MOTS is telling you to stop it and don’t make a mockery and fool of yourself… if you feel they are wrong… then try to bring them to light but also be open to know that you may be wrong also…. churches are to doctrinated in dominica… you are a pentecost, baptist, sda, church of christ, catholic (although that set openly do alot of ungodly things i.e carnival) we were all bapstised in the Name of God… yes many of us will fail but nonetheless doesn’t make You better than another… i could go on and on… but i’ll stop there for now

    • Clueless
      February 28, 2012

      “Mouth of the South”…The teachings of Jesus is Doctrine and the Church rests upon his teachings in in fact it lives little or no room for other teachings and refers to them as false Doctrine. Jesus rejected the doctrine of the pharisees, Paul refuted his former religion and Jews religion. It is not that the churches are too doctrinated but rather they some take it too far. Even if Jesus did not agree with some he did not through hot water on them either but expressed his displeasure with his truths. Anyways at one point we all must ask what have the JW done that so many dislike them and speak wrong of them? Have you ever asked that question? Allow me to shine a little light. (Last year they say Christ coming and the people from the US who said so were mocked and scorn after the were proven to wrong, false teachings if we call it what it really is. The Jehovah’s Witnesses “literally” has the world record among religious groups for predicting dates that Jesus would return but never did ( people sealing home, quitting jobs, giving all their money to the Church etc the works). They have done so and been wrong up to nine times before. Check out these links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
      http://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies
      We mocked the people who were in Dominica last year with there false teachings, imagine them doing the same thing 8 more times ( destroying families, home & lives) and image how that will make our society feel towards them. Is that an excuse for some things done towards them? No but at lease you can begin to see that the whole world has reasons to be weary and truthfully pissed off at such people and doctrine and as well their lack of concern for others welfare.

  13. Miss G
    February 28, 2012

    I do love Jehovah Witness, SDA, Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, CUC,etccccccccccc…… but I love Jesus the Most.

  14. Miss G
    February 28, 2012

    Boy Boy Boy, If I was not a born again believer and know who I believed in and fully persuaded by Jesus Christ my Savior and Lord? What a sad life I would have in those religious circles. Thank God for Jesus, who saves people from their sins and not the SDA church or the Jehovah Witness or the Catholic or any other. I’m saved and I know that I am by the Blood of Christ. Receive Christ today in your life and you will see the difference He will make in your life. Religion can never give you what Christ gives to you. So just taste and see that the Lord is Good.

  15. okay...
    February 28, 2012

    Article is title “are the churches really christ-like?”.
    First paragraph starts off well.
    Second paragraph descends into a full-on rant of the mistreatment of jehovah’s witnesses.

    Could not be more obvious that this is just an enraged member letting off steam.

    • Anonymous
      February 28, 2012

      truth hurts!open your mind. The writer ends by stating that he is honest, and truthful in his summarizing of what he has observed over many years,not a member! You are calling the writer a liar?. are you one of the fair minded ppl …Big question here. Hi y chien mais di dan’y blanc. (Patois proverb- hate dog but say its teeth is white)& dont kill the messenger.

      • okay...
        February 29, 2012

        So you don’t find it funny that the person mentioned jehovah’s witness like 10 times in the article? lol if that doesn’t point to them having some kind of affiliation with them then I don’t know what else to say. Other than the article should have been titled “Mistreatment of Jehovah’s witnesses by so-called christians” that would have been better.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2
    • February 28, 2012

      @Okay

      I was going to start my comment the same way, but you have said the exact thing that I noticed– I know how this happened, believe it or not!

      However, I wish that we, who claim to be Christians, would stop thinking religion when we speak about our relationship with God.

      The writer starts with the question: “Are the Churches really Christlike” but he went on and on about religion and Jehovah’s Witness.

      The Pharisees and the Sadducees were plagued with the zeal for religion–not knowing the God whom they claimed to be their Father; for they did not believe His Son. Their zeal for religion was the reason they called for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ–who told them over and over: “I came from the Father”

      “For by grace you have been saved by faith, and not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast”. Ephesians 2: 8-9

      Religion is a routine of man-made rules and regulations–the good works–by which some churches believe that they will find Salvation; but this is a tragic mistake.

      Salvation is not a reward for doing good works, but when we have Salvation in Jesus Christ, His Holy Spirit motivates or influences our attitude and conducts of good works–for the glory of God Almighty.

      In other words Salvation comes first, by faith. It is Life of Spirit and Truth, and so our works are the ways of Life–Love, the attitude and conducts of Jesus Christ, God’s Person of Love.

      I do not join with the Church to receive Salvation, but Salavation, in me, urges me to join with the Church for worship to God and fellowship with His family–the Body of His Son, Jesus Christ. Our works together, are of the traits of Love.

      Even Mother Teresa could have died without Salvation; because, if she was so busy doing good works, she could have missed the point about her relationship with God, the only way she could have secured her Salvation. I am not saying this was so, in her case; I am just using her as an example of the idea, and the fate of religion, for those who practice it.

      Christianity is about an intimate Love relationship with God Almighty, Eternal Spirit. “He who gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have Eternal Life”. John 3:16

      Intimate or personal relationship, because that is the way we, who believe or maintain faith, can conceive God’s Love, that we might be born of God–as our mind goes into renewal and our dead or sleeping soul becomes awakened– the Life of Love being indwelt in us, that we might develop and grow in knowledge of God and His ways of Love–in Spirit and in Truth.

      This should be the desire of each of us, personally–not relying on what another person tells us.

      Our search for God, through the teachings of human wisdom and philosophy does not work, for we are all human beings with a mind that must undergo renewal–that we might comprehend the things of God Almighty, who is Spirit–not of flesh and blood.

      God’s Holy Spirit does that renewal to our minds–not what another human being or a group of human beings speak to us.

      When God connects to us, through conscience by our faith, His Holy Spirit becomes our only teacher. We do not need anyone to teach us–I know what I am talking about; because I am one of those persons who is being taught by God’s Holy Spirit alone–as He guides me through wisdom and understanding of His Word in the Holy Bible.

      Those people with the same privilege that I have, we are the ones who can share about God and His Ways in harmony, because it is the same Spirit who teaches us, and so we have the same wisdom, understand and knowledge of God and His Ways of Love–not the confusion of human wisdom and understanding.

      It does not matter what denomination of the Churches we follow with, there is always people who are connected to God, through conscience, and there are those who are not. “You will know them by their fruits”

      There is also many who acknowledges their weakness and are striving. God will reach out to those people at His time. Your faith, your mind, your heart and your soul is what God wants.

      Do not allow no human being to force you to repeat words after them like the famous: “Lord Jesus come into my heart” and then to tell you that you are saved. That is not the truth.

      As Christians we need to understand that our worship to God must be in Spirit, as we rejoice in Jesus Christ; we should have no confidence in the flesh–the words of human wisdom and philosophy.

      I have experienced with both Jehovah Witnesses, and the Latter Day Saints. Those people do not go door to door to bring people into harmony, unity, worship, and fellowship with God–they simply want you to become a member of their Church, because they claim that the one you are already with is not good enough–at least that is how it is with those around me, they could be different in Dominica.

      Their message they have shared with me is based on a whole lot of arguments–which Johovah’s Witnesses refer to as “reasoning” I had one of two choices, to accept what they shared with me or not to accept it and there goes the argument.

      Their topics include: Jesus is not God; why not to celebrate Christmas and birthdays; why not to accept blood tranfusion–even if it means you will die without it; why not to believe in the Trinity; the tell you that only 144,000 men are to be born again and will go to heaven; they even tell people that Holy Spirit is not a Person–otherwise He cannot indwell everyone. And so the argument goes on and on–but that is not teaching or preaching the Word of God to people, for the sake of their Salvation.

      Well God’s Holy Spirit spoke to me, telling me that this sort of thing was useless for me, because it simply left my mind full of confusion and doubts about God. Since I started relying on God’s Holy Spirit to teach me, I have been healed from confusion and doubts–that is more than 10 years ago.

      I will leave you with the Scripture that made me who I am in Jesus Christ today, starting from the day I read and understood it; sometime between January and June of 2001. Here it is:

      “I will put My law in their minds and I will write it on their hearts; I will be their God and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: “Know the Lord”; for they shall on know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them”, says the Lord. Jeremiah 31: 31-34

      God teaches us to know Him and His ways of Love, as He puts His laws in our minds and writes them on our hearts by the Power of His Holy Spirit who indwells our conscience. This began to happen on the Day of Pentecost–around 50 days after the ascension of Jesus Christ.

      So how can God’s Holy Spirit not be God’s Person, according to the teachings of Jehovah’s witness?

      Read the confirmation of the scripture above at 1st.John 2: 27 in your Bible–if you have one at home.

      I wish that Roy had spoken more deeply about his understanding of the “Christlikeness” idea in his question pertaining to the Church–to pass on a message to readers– instead of dwelling on the stuff about Jehovah’s Witness and his judgements of human attitude and conducts–we are all familiar with those situations. God knows what He will do with them.

    • Student
      February 29, 2012

      I don’t think you read the article very well. I’m fairly certain he himself is a Christian, not a Jehovah, and is simply pointing out that other members of his faith are not acting in an appropriate manner to those of others. He is urging all his fellow Christians to practice what they preach.

  16. Koneru
    February 28, 2012

    And that’s why dominica will be continuously poor and forever stricken with poverty. Dominican’s are too superstitious.

    • Me
      February 28, 2012

      The article was not written by a Dominican. check the name…Roy Flintoff.

  17. ineedfree
    February 28, 2012

    Don;

    the sabbath is always an internal issue to a point where I saw in the bible that you must observe the moons where the cycle goes within seven days generally.

    could say more but need to know that the swine doesnt receive the pearl

  18. February 28, 2012

    My first comment was directed to Nokayray Magumha,, :) :)

  19. possie long time
    February 28, 2012

    i’m one who believes dat religion won’t save any of us….but our salvation. don’t let religion separate you from one an other. i’m a catholic and i believe in my faith. no one organization is perfect however we are called to be…

    • Clueless
      February 28, 2012

      Just one question. How do you get salvation without religion. The very fact you speak of salvation means you support a particular religion, even if it is yours. We need to fact the scriptural fact. Jesus/God built a church, I am pretty sure he intends people to be a part of it. In fact Acts 2:47 teaches that God added to the church those who are saved. Therefore since God adds people to “The Church” those who are saved then all the saved are in a church. We need to be more concerned about finding the church that Jesus build than to make excuses about not joining one.

  20. truther
    February 28, 2012

    They fight over which day to worship but do not have the first clue who is a neighbour – far less how to love that neighbor. They create their own commandments which they elevate above God’s commandments. THAT is real idolatry. They create church groups and family life ministries but their own families wouldn’t sell for 1c on Ebay. Go figure.

    • February 28, 2012

      @truther

      You said that “they create church groups and family life ministries but their own families wouldn’t sell for 1c on Ebay”

      May I inform you that the Church is the family of God–as it should be a Spiritual Family–one Body and Jesus is the Head. “In other words the Church is One Bod in the Spirit, One Body in the Love of Lord, Jesus Christ”

      My responsibilty as a part of the Church’ body, is to encourage my immidiate family to join with me. And if they are not interested–there is nothing I can do, but to leave them alone.

      Because in Eternity, in the presence of God, I will be wiped out of my human mind, and so I will only know those who accept Jesus Christ, to have a mind of Spirit and Truth like myself, before they died, or before Jesus returns to this world–whichever happens first.

      If my immediate family rejects God’s call through me, to join with His Church–His Spiritual family, for God is Spirit–then they have rejected God, and remain in their trespasses with a soul that is lost.

      They will be in a different place in Eternity from my place there. I will have no knowledge of their exitence. I love my family, but if they do not choose God like I did–they will suffer the fate which I have no power to prevent; and I cannot ignore my Church Family because of them.

  21. February 28, 2012

    I second that motion with no apology.

  22. don
    February 28, 2012

    What I would like to know from the comment made where in the bible indicate that “SATURDAY” is the seventh day or the sabbath. Why can’t my sabbath be any other day of the week? Some proof is needded.

    • February 28, 2012

      For starters you do not have a sabbath to take or keep, the sabbath is the Lord’s,the bible says the seventh day is the sabbath and the jewish calendar proves that Saturday is the seventh day. I’m sure you know what easter symbolizes so read Mark chapter 16 the first few verses, if you believe that Christ was crucified on (good) friday after you read the refered passages of scripture then you do the math and be blessed.

      • February 28, 2012

        @Woodfordhill girl

        I am currious to know what you believe, because you are not specific.

        As for me, all I know is that Jesus told the Jewish leaders, who asked Him for a sign to prove His authority, “that they should destroy the Temple and He would raise it up in three days” Jesus was talking about His body, even if the Jews did not know that.

        Also at another time He said to them that the sign of Jonah was the only sign they would see. We know that Jonah was in the belly of a large fish for three days and three nights

        Another time Jesus told His disciples a day has twelve hours, therefore day and night makes twenty four hours. 3 days and 3 nights has to be 72 hours.

        So how can I believe that Jesus died in the afternoon on Friday–the day before Saturday, and yet when the ladies went to His grave early on the morning of Sunday He was not there.

        If Jesus was still alive on Friday during the day, even if He was buried before midnight Friday–the time He would spend in the grave would not even be 36 hours, much more for 72 hours–which is 3 days and 3 nights–according to Jesus.

        But still that Friday burial and Sunday morning resurrection is an acceptance of the Roman Catholic Church, which a few more Churches accept–but not all Churches do.

        Besides, if we are following the Jewish Calendar, Jesus died during the week of the Passover, which the Jews observed from the 14th day to the 21st day of the first month of the year–according to God’s command. So why do we observe His death in April–most of the time? O dear! O dear!

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    • February 28, 2012

      @Don

      Yes, your Sabbath can be any day you choose, as long as on that the day you spent your time with God–not involved with the things of this world.

      Because many Christians work on Saturdays or Sundays–so what can they do?

      The Pharisees and the Sadducees of Jesus’ days had a lot of trouble with Jesus because He would not follow the rules of the Sabbath. He healed people whenever they called for His healing–the Jewish people believed healing was a form of work.

      So Jesus told them that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So choose you special day to spend most of your time with God–that is all He wants from you.

      But if you have a Church family, go and worship God, and fellowship with them–on the chosen day of worship and fellowship– as often as you can–God wants you to do that as well.

  23. peeping
    February 28, 2012

    To answer the author, the jehova witnesses are very irritating, they know how to contwayay a person. They always show up in the middle of your work, while you cooking or eating and they dont let up. They feel they earn the right to pounce on you whenever they feel like, they have no respect for others. When you taking your well earned rest they knock your door wake you up and dont leave. When they learn to respect others they will get respect. They need to make appointments when they want to visit, nobody has the right to prance in to anyone’s home unannounce and demand your time 8)

    • AmazingFace
      February 28, 2012

      True! I second that. Because sometimes they knock on yr door, they don’t even know if you just fell asleep after finishing up a shift or whatever…if i want to attend their services, i know where to find them, shate man!

      • DANZIGER
        February 28, 2012

        @ Peeping well said another thing I went to a funeral in the catholic church and some Jehovah Witnesses were there and they stayed outside the church. Is that christ like?

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  24. Clueless
    February 28, 2012

    Let me say something in regard to acceptance in religion. The bible never teaches to embrace every religious doctrine. Jesus did not embrace the Pharisees teachings in fact he often spoke out against them publicly. Thought the bible teaches unity it also teaches that those who refuse to be united under or according to the teachings of Christ should be marked and have no fellowship with because false doctrine is a sure way to depart from God’s word and a quick path to hell.
    However verbal abuse or physical harm is never accepted and is certainly not Christ-like, and politics does not belong in churches. Every church leader that is too involved in politics should step down or let go by the congregation, they just don’t mix and last but not lest “Roy Flitoff” passing judgement on all for the sins of a few is not Christ like either. All must account for their own sins.

    • Student
      February 29, 2012

      Wow, I’m glad the bible was written by the lord in such a clear way that it can only be interpreted as one single truth. Imagine if it was written by man, many men, over hundreds of years, resulting in a fractured collection of stories leaving them open to hundreds of interpretations and chaos? That would be terrible…………

  25. LaPte
    February 28, 2012

    Why publish this….

  26. no kayray majumba
    February 28, 2012

    i hope that you are different from these so-called Christians, and that you will be an example for them. would you accept a Seventh-day Adventist without any kind of criticism? The Jehovah witnesses worship on a sunday. Is there any proof in the Bible for that. According to (“the Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, Page 4”) “The Catholic church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.” Now you tell me why should I listen to a Jehovah Witness when they are under the Banner of the catholic church. It does not matter how much you use the bible to tell them of their error, they will still tell you the sabbath was for the Jews. But christ was a Jew and we are to walk in his footsteps. SO I DO NOT WANT ANY JEHOVAH WITNESS COMING TO TALK THEIR FOOLISHNESS TO ME.

    • Sayodityodit
      February 28, 2012

      I do not think God would not welcome someone into his Kingdom just because they worshipped on a Sunday rather than Saturday. It is a matter of principle dedicating time to God.

    • someone
      February 28, 2012

      Your responsibility is to win them to Christ

    • Anonymous
      February 28, 2012

      when religion becomes a reason for division, I wonder if you all know who really in charge. oh by the way i never read in the bible you can be a sinner and just as wicked as any other of the religious denominations and just because you worship on saturday. its ok

    • Clueless
      February 28, 2012

      “No Kayray majumba”… let me impart a little knowledge to you apart from what the SDA has feed you with and you have so easily swallowed up. You guys are always talking about the catholic in regards to Sunday worship as thought they invented it or something ( well yes you believe that )Did you know that Christian meet on the first day of the week long before the catholic church was ever established? while Rome was still persecuting Christians? Acts 20:7, 1 Corin 16:2. The catholic church was not established before the Church that Jesus built in AD 33 in Jerusalem. You need to search for the church that Jesus build and asked questions like if Jesus built a church ( new Testament) what are it’s new teachings and customs? What makes it different than the ones which were they before? like the Jews worship etc. and start asking other questions like? Was my church started by Jesus or Elder White and his wife? Was it started in Jerusalem as the scripture say of did it start in the USA, did it begin in the year AD33 or in the 1700-1800s. And why on earth after all the false predictions that the SDA made about the coming of Jesus (like those people who were in Dominica Last year did)(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Millerite_Roots.2C_1831-1844) am I still a member of the SDA, when i fully know that is false teaching and the foundation upon which the SDA church was built.

      • no kayray majumba
        February 28, 2012

        It would take me almost all the day typing a response to you. so i would simply advise you to study the prophetic books of daniel and the revelation. Ask your pastor/priest to explain to you, then go to an adventist pastor and ask him to give you a study on the phrophecies of daniel and the revelation. when you are through compare the information given to you form both sets of people. If you are honest you will admit that the adventist know exactly what they are about. In relation to Ellen G. White she is not the founder of the Adventist church as a matter of fact she was not an Adventist until she came to understand the sabbath truth that she accepted it. the Seventh-day Adventist church has been there from creation. Read Genesis Adam and Eve were to rest on the Sabbath. Abraham was to rest on the sabbath and this is what was passed down to Abraham’s seed. Even when Christ came to earth he went to the synagogue as his custom was.(Luke 4:16) He was in the habit of keeping it.

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      • Voice from the North
        February 28, 2012

        You are really clueless about the history of the SDA church and some of you are quick to run to the Bible to quote texts which you do not understand neither do you take into account the context in which the text was made. These two texts have nothing to do with worshiping God. Just read the several verses before the texts you submitted.

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      • February 29, 2012

        @Clueless

        Please take note that the Church was not yet established while Jesus was here on earth, He simply prepare the men He live to finish the mission He started.

        The apostle John said in his Gospel about Jesus: “He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, but the world did not know Him. He came to His own and His own did not receive Him”. John 1: 10-11

        No Church can be formed without God’s Holy Spirit, but when Jesus was on earth, He once told His disciple: “Unless I go He (Holy Spirit) cannot come”

        Notice that Jesus spoke what is known as the Great Comission–just before His ascension into Heaven–as He told His disciples:

        “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the ages” Matthew 28: 19

        We are told by Gospel writer Luke that after Jesus’ ascension, there were only 120 believers in an upper room, waiting for the Power of God’s Holy Spirit as Jesus had commanded them to wait. Acts 1: 15

        On the Day of Pentecost–the pouring of God’s Holy Spirit, the Church grew by three thousand Act 2: 41 And the last number that is mentioned in the Book of Acts is 5000, but the Church grew out into the world today.

        Now apostle Paul is the primary man, that Jesus used to estalblish His Church, but Paul is not in the scene before Act 8, and according to outside information it took him 12 years before he began his missionary work.

        So through those He prepared to do this work–including the apostle Paul who was called to preach to the Gentiles– Jesus established His Church by the Power of His Holy Spirit, the covenant of God to mankind spoken through His Jeremiah–not while He was on earth, because His death had to occur, so that His resurrection would glory God’s Power, that mankind would apply faith and believe.

        Without faith, it is impossible to work with God and Him with us.

        However it is said that followers of Jesus were first called “Christians” in Antioch–Acts 11: 26 Hence it is man who added denominational names, along with the many false rules and regulations of those different denominations that we who follow them remaind conformed to.

        May God have mercy on or weaknesses and our ignorances.

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    • Ras
      February 28, 2012

      “The Jehovah witnesses worship on a sunday”….I think that is an error on your part. I regularly pass by their church in goodwill, and observe them too…they have service tuesday, wednesday, thursday, saturday, and sunday. Those people have no particular “one-day” for worship like those other religion. I know, because I asked them about that myself. It wasn’t hearsay. I ask them all kind of question when they meet me on the block in the ghetto. Also, those people have absolutely no connection with the catholic church, so i doh see why you should say they under the banner of the catholic church. What those people share with me on the block one time, have more substance and meaning than what those pastor preaching in their sunday sermon. I think those people teaching is way above those other religions.

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