Desmond Carlisle of SAG Motors has emerged victorious over the Royal Bank of Canada in an Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court of Appeal matter today.
The two parties went head to head in a matter involving a sum of money which Carlisle had paid the institution over a period of time.
Carlisle first challenged that amount of funds in 1999 when the matter first went to court.
He convinced the judges today in a civil appeal that the amount of interest he paid the bank was excessive. The Justices did not disclose the amount which the bank will have to pay him.
He argued that the bank had been charging him way over the legal interest rate.
He was represented by attorney Lennox Lawrence while Mrs Joan Prevost represented the bank.
I missed this one. This may be stale and a late response. Just replying. Royal Bank does the same thing in Canada. At the end of the year they report the amount of money they made for the year. I read last evening on Sympatico.ca (was also in the news), last year the Canadian government gave those Banks billions of dollars to assist them, bailing them out, hoping there was a recession. Consider that Canadian has millions of people. It was stated that each person in Canada could have received over $3,000 for that amount which was given to the Banks. They did not use all of it and are yet to reveal how much of it.
Why did the government not give it to us? This is taxpayers’ money! They never think of ‘the people’, always those corporations who also bilk ‘the people’ and with interest rates.
When election time rolls around they want us to vote for them. I do not allow them into my home. I do not want to hear their promises some of which they never fulfill. I make up my mind who I should vote for with no coercion. Canada/ all Provinces have their problems. There is much to share with you and our frustrations at times.
If only we could do without banks! The day will come but probably not for us who are alive, when Our Lord Jesus Christ will purge the world of all sorts of evil and greed.
There are a number of interesting comments here that should be addressed.
1) IS 11 YEARS TOO LONG? This is a simple finance case nothing more. RBC has their books, Carlisle his. There is no lengthy deposition of witnesses or call for extra evidence. RBC stalled and stalled and stalled and the court did little to force them to comply. Appeal or no appeal the case was really one that could have been decided over a few hours not years. The point being that even with an appeal process the case shouldnt have taken over 1 year. What RBC did was to systematically attempt to “bleed out” Carlisle by hoping he would give up. The point is RBC never had any incentive to do anything but delay any ruling as for 11 years they used his money, and forced him to pay what they wanted. The court’s need to realize that any protracted failure to disclose should be an automatic default judgement against the bank. Let’s face it the bank is in the BUSINESS OF KEEPING GOOD RECORDS and if they don’t have them or are unwilling to produce them in minutes, not years, then something is clearly criminally wrong.
2) OVERSIGHT? RBC and all affiliate branches are governed by a code of conduct which RBC Dominica does not appear to follow, but you be the judge. To read more about what rights you have at RBC go to the main RBC canada website and view the code of conduct there are also links to contact their public affairs office. You probably wont get a reply because they, at the head office, dont seem to want to deal with it either. If enough people complain then RBC canada can be held responsible and it is faster, cheaper, and easier to get a judgement in Canada then in Dominica. Can Dominica enforce good business practices among bankers? Do Clients of a bank have the right to understand how their payments are applied and how and why they are charged? That is something for the Court and Politicians to decide.
3) FOLLOW THE MONEY: Do the bankers at RBC really have the interests of RBC only in mind when they charge these fees or exact this interest? Where is all this extra cash going? If you work for the bank and try to extract a huge sum from some unknowing banking client the money is supposed to go to the bank, as an instution, not the officers of the bank. Therefore, theoretically the bank shouldn’t want to fight a case for 11 years or be unwilling to modify a loan agreement as the bank employees dont have it in THEIR personal interest to do so…. but what if this wasn’t the case at RBC? What if the Banker’s were actually double dealing money in service fees redirected to outside companies (lawyers, service companies, etc) who were giving the bankers kickbacks? Or what if there was a system in place at RBC to reward bankers for extracting extra from the client base above and beyond the norm? Where did all this extra cash go? Who benefitted directly from it? THIS IS THE MAIN POINT which people seem to be missing. Follow the money, it’s not that difficult they are a bank they are supposed to keep good records… or so you hope.
Congratulations Mr. Carlisle…I hope the banks here in Antigua take note…
Congrtulation to Mr Carlisle, praises must be given to you and your attorney. It is good that someone was able to stand up to the banks. The banks must pay for their wrong doings at the next level. I hope more people can do the same.
@observer: I checked it and my rate is still at 7.5% on a reducing balance for my mortgage for the past 6 years…. You must be special!!
Dat`s why sag motors closed down for years.
@From Afar:
PC Financial is not better. They give people a no fee bank account, but they take their money back through their 24% interest rate charge, plus a $1.00 per every $100.00 finance protection charge, for the monthly balance on their master card.
Bankers just do not give people money for free. Do not be fooled.
@sianguk: Without appeals and delay tactics and adjourning court cases they would not take so long. Yes, I say only in Dominica because so far, only in Dominica I see these occurrences. The facts are there? Why do you suppose it took 11 years? By now the courts should recognize delay tactics and deal with them appropriately. Give deadlines and stick to them. If the courts do not take control of theses situations then lawyers abuse the system to see if the ordinary man will run out of money!
I think the handsome, young manager at RBC should comment just to restore some public confidence. Can he?
Hello from Toronto.
Personally, I like virtual banking. I’ve been doing virtual banking for the last 8 years. I don’t even pay service fees like most banks would have you do. I don’t know if it will work in DA though. Check PC Financial or ING Direct. Hopefully you’ll have better luck with them. Cheers.
This just goes to show that some banks are like saprophites economically slaughtering poor hard working Dominicans then sucking their dead carcasses dry. Money lenders have no conscience.
Nice win
But 11 years is plenty time to wait for it we
Hats off to Mr Carlisle as he has extreme patience
@Best Interest
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH A SLEDGEHAMMER
@observer: Yes this is true. Person must be aware of the hidden costs when these financial institutions offer them lower rate of interest and lower payments plan.
I know of an individua who was offered a lower rate of interest and lower payment plan since this Bank Officers went out on the field to get custommers. This individual paid two years and a few months under the new interest /payment plan. The individuals saving was depleted with service charge and late fees payment even if the salary deduction was coming in regularly at the 25th of every month. The individual worked at an establishment where payment of salaries was done by the 25th of each month. NB the individual never missed a payment during the 2 years plus the few months.
When the individual returned to the original financial institution like the prodigal son, the loan was very much higher than when the bank had paid off the institution 2 years prior. NB also that the individual did not yes did not take any additional amount on the mortgage.
The bank benefitted in this instance – Interest rate and other hidden costs to the Bank. The poor individual just lost 2 years of hard earned money and also from the saving accounts as well.
The bank benefitted in this instance – savings to late fees and service charge
the bank didnot know how to defend thier case.. next time hire me cause unless u were given a specific judgement rate from the court which u didnot ammend , your original interest rate should remain
We hope the management of the AID BANK takes this as a reason to deal with the complaints of their customers. Some of us have been waiting for 11 years to get a response to the same problem.
JUSTICE FOR ALL!!.
Some of these comments betray our collective ignorance of banks and the banking industry. I blame the banks for this ignorance as many of their practices have remained in the dark for decades.
It is obvious to me that this issue is more complex than RBC loaning a sum of money to Mr. Carlisle at XX% interest – XX% interest being too high and the reason for his victory at the appeals court. Banks, especially those operating within the Eastern Caribbean, are closely regulated with regards to interest rates they are allowed to charge on various products and services. Indeed our regional banking environment is very conservative.
One can only speculate as to the real nature of this case; maybe it was a loan with adjustable rates, or a consolidated loan or re-financed line of credit. Regardless of the facts, this victory does not confirm that banks operating in Dominica are in the habit of giving loans with absurd rates of interest. This only confirms that based on the facts of THIS case, the judges at the appelate court level found in Mr. Carlisle’s favor.
So if you have a loan with FCIB at XX% interest rate, this judgment doesn’t qualify you to take your bank to court.
It would serve us all if the details of the case made public. In absence of these facts, I will say congratulations to Mr. Carlisle on his hard-fought victory.
nEXT IS SCOTIA BANK WITH ALL THOSE HIDDEN CHARGES AND FLUCTUATING INTEREST RATES THAT THEY CHARGE PEOPLE AND THOSE WHO ARE NOT SO AWARE TAKE THE FALL.
THE QUOTE YOU A LOW INTEREST RATE TO GET YOU TO COME ACROSS TO THEM AND THEN DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR LOAN THE INTEREST RATE GOES ON A ROLLER COASTER.
FORTHOSE OF YOU WHO DONT KNOW CHECK IT OUT
@BEST INTEREST: It didn’t take 11 years for the court to decide.
The case went through the motions in the lower courts and Mr. Carlisle apparently lost. He appealed his judgment and that is how the case eventually got to the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court of Appeal. The battle was fought on that level and he won. Eleven years seems like a long time but challenging a case at two or three levels of the court system is bound to take a lot of time.
my account in royal bank can be considered closed!!!
@BEST INTEREST:
Best Interest,
So why do you say that it is Dominica Justice system that is soley to blame, for the length of time it has taken to bring this to a resolution (or is it finally resolved).
Royal Bank had no part to play for the protracted nature of this case?
During those ELEVEN years can you imagine how much money they made on the money they owed him? . . . say they owe him 500,000 . . . in eleven years the bank must have made at least 5 times as much for themselves i.e. 2,500,000;
To pay him a million leaves a a cool 1,500,000. But thats the nature of banks
Dominica and Dominicans you are not alone. This kind of crucifixion, to the weaker person with serious financial needs, is happening in every place where those people must maintain a relationship, especially the banks and credits cards institutions.
As we all understand, this man was smart and powerful, meaning that he had some brain and most importantly, the financial resource. Yet still he may have experienced both victory–getting the bank to admit their gruesome robbery; and defeat–how much does he have left from reimbursement after he pays his lawyer for 11 years of service? So in a way we just do not get a complete win against these giant financial institution.
Today, a person cannot even put some money in a checking account and to leave it their for a long period of time. Why is that so? Because the bank charges for monthly service, regardless of whether they serve you or not. Serving you would mean anything that you do with that money in your account for the month. And so, instead of gaining an interest amount for the money you left in your account, that account eventually drops down to zero, even if you did not use the money, because the bank takes its amount for service every month.
Some credits cards have a term where people must pay $1.00 for every $100.00 that is incurred in the credit balance. Which means that with a $5000.00 balance, I must pay $50.00 plus interest, which could amount anywhere from another $100.00 or more, depending on the interest rate, before I can reduce that $5000.00 balance. So if I want to reduce my balance by the smallest margine every month, I must make sure that I am sending at least $250.00 to only one credit card every month, without making any purchases from that credit card. How are we surving in this world? Only God knows!
The problem is that the banks and credit cards do not want to lose money. But they give large amount of loans and huge credit limits to the big shots, who turns around and declare bankruptcy. Hence they try to get their money back from us, who are to weak to fight against their crucifixion. Again, I say, Lord have mercy on us!
congrat deszo the next one is NBD Toyota will soon there
My greatest disappointment in this issue is the length of time it takes a man to get justice in this country. How can it take 11 years to decide on such a matter? 1999 – 2010? No man! Dominica is a country in which unless you have money, assets or friends in high places you will never get justice. If that man was not able to retain the services of a lawyer for 11 years, he would have never won that ruling.
Now I wait to see how long it will take for settlement.
I hear this gentleman say that this is a victory for the people in general. It is a victory for us all and I hope more people will be able to capitalize on this ruling. Banks are rapists. They are thieves. You borrow money to try and make a living and these institutions make a mint on poor people’s backs. Then they have the audacity to declare millions of dollars in profits. What is worse, money hungry people who run these institutions end up diverting the funds into questionable investments. It is a shame. The powers that be have no sympathy for poor people. They have no problem with seeing peoples houses and vehicles being reposessed. You could pay your house for ten years, with interest of twice the amount you borrow, they will still take the house and you end up with nothing.
I hope this is the beginning of something good.
Allah says in the Holy Quran that interest is forbidden. Only Islamic economics will aid this economy
Capitalism is a killer!
that wasn’t jus a win for mr carlisle but for dominicans on a whole,,,the question is do the masses have the finance like mr carlisle to go through such an ordeal with such a powerful n well known institution,,,,,,,and the answer is NO,,,and thats very sad,,,,so many of us getting ripped n burned
so u meant to tell me that this man and his family have gone through sooooooo much stress, etc. over the years all because the banks were doing nonesense! i hope the banks pay! this is ridiculous. i’m sure the banks have done this to many people!! dcans need to step up.
well at least he win a case i hope he pays his debts. Dem banks too volere they want to have too much good time on ppl money.
Good model case for the banks who have collected excessive interest amounts on housing loans and still will not agree to consider recoveing just the principal granted when a customer hit financial difficulties.
This is a real life lesson for Aid Bank look out your clients are so concerned that they cry tires so look out we are looking.
afterall..if da bank knows they charged excess interest rate,why allow da matter to go to court.r they dat thief??!!
that’s very interesting….more banks will pay soon for other things…LOL….”old street”…heeey
congrats…next is nbd